Dani joins Kate for a character study on Roxy Lalonde. Topics include a new contender for worst intro, alcohol, Void, Kate getting roasted for being old, depictions of motherhood, flawed teenagers and their big teen problems, Rose and Dave, the age-old question “is Homestuck good?", our one shared brain cell, transness through the lens of Homestuck and Roxy’s canon green gf.
Listen to this episode at https://perfectlygenericpodcast.com/updates/episodes/24
Kate: The Perfectly Generic Podcast contains spoilers, occasional adult language, and Vriska. You've been warned.
Kate: Listeners, I'm trying to record a podcast but I'm dummy thicc and the clap of my ass cheeks keeps messing up the audio. This is the Perfectly Generic Podcast.
Dani: This is not the Perfectly Generic Podcast, this is me leaving the room.
Dani: We're *done*!
Kate: Kate is cancelled! [laughs]
Dani: Kate is cancelled! I'm writing this callout post as we speak.
Kate: [laughs] The intros keep getting stupider and stupider [laughs]
Dani: Oh my fucking god. Bro, when am I getting a callout post? Can I get one?
Kate: I think — I feel like people — no, I'm not gonna get into it.
Dani: I wanna callout post.
Dani: No I don't.
Kate: You don't want a callout post! Callout posts suck.
Dani: Somebody'd be like "Dani is a misandrist" —
Kate: [laughs] Yeah! Oh man dude, I was in — I was in a Youtube video interview about my Overwatch League team that got y'know, like 30,000 views or something, and there were all these comments that had like, hundreds of upvotes that were like "Kate gives off big I Hate Men energy". And it's like, how did you figure that out?!
Dani: I'm telling you it's you, me and Hexa, we're the misandrist club!
Dani: Because we link hands.
Dani: Jeez. Nah bro, it's —
Kate: So you're back on the show. Last time you were on the show you were like running the place.
Dani: I was that top bitch, I was — amazing?!
Dani: I was great, I was perfect —
Dani: 'Cause I *am* perfect. 'Cause I'm never wrong, 'cause I spit truth all the time.
Kate: It's true. It's true. I was just getting drunk with James [Roach] while you were recording that episode. I was just livin' it up.
Dani: You were living it up! I was just like, Kate's over there living their best life, and I'm over here talking about racism.
Kate: Yeah, thanks for — thanks for doin' all my hard work for me, I really appreciate it.
Dani: I did the work. I am a soldier.
Dani: This is — you guys stand for the pledge of allegiance just for me and not the US military, not the marines, not the air force. Just for me.
Kate: Okay, so we need a new pledge of allegiance, but like a pledge — "We pledge allegiance to Dani —"
Dani: Pledge allegiance to like — it's like — fuck. Ffffffffshit! It's just making a Homestuck song! That's the new fucking national anthem.
Kate: [laughs] Sunslammer is the new national anthem, I'm good with that.
Dani: Oh my god! Oh my god.
Dani: Ohhh, my god.
Kate: [laughs] What?
Dani: Oh my goddddd.
Kate: What's happening?
Dani: Oh my godddd. Nothing! Um, wow Dani has a crush on Lady Gaga. Thanks KC, not sure what that means, but anyways we're talking about Roxy today. Sorry, I didn't introduce myself. My name's Dani, I'm @lalonders [on Twitter], I'm also at homestuck appreciations with an L somewhere in there [@hsappreciatoIns]. I'm also @hstiktoks and those are my three accounts for now.
Kate: For now! There's always — you reserve the right to make more.
Dani: I have too many Twitter accounts, I have like 17. I gotta chillax.
Kate: I have — I have like eight Twitter accounts. Who has the most Twitter accounts in Homestuck 'cause I think it might be Roxy.
Dani: Probably me! Oh — oh in Homestuck?
Kate: No I mean which character has the most Twitter accounts, yeah.
Dani: KC *fuck off*!! Sorry — lookin' at the Homestuck chat.
Kate: No, I'm recording a show! Don't look at chat!?
Dani: So?! I just have Discord open and I saw something cursed.
Kate: God d—
Dani: I think Roxy has the most because she uses — like Roxy used to troll — no! I lied, Dave used to troll. Dave used to troll hardcore, I think he has the most — like, he has a bunch of like 2013 Twitter accounts.
Dani: That he used to troll people with. And now Twitter has a no troll policy.
Kate: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, definitely, I've never been — there's *no* trolls on Twitter any more (!)
Dani: No trolls!
Kate: Dude, I have a — my 2009 Twitter account is still out there! It's got, like, a spam — it's got like a takeover spam link on it. Its —
Dani: Oh my god.
Kate: Its username and icon are a Problem Sleuth reference —
Dani: Oh god.
Kate: 'Cause I made it when Problem Sleuth was still running.
Dani: Damn, you been in this for a while. What the fuck?!
Kate: I have, that's the thing, is people say "oh I've liked Homestuck for too long", like you don't understand. Like, I liked — I — for me Homestuck was just the next MSPaint Adventure. I was like, cool, it's gonna be Homestuck for a couple years and then we're gonna do another one.
Dani: No Homestuck has just taken over. It just is.
Kate: Yeah. And then Homestuck turned into a 10 year project.
Dani: Damn it has been 10 years of Homestuck, what the fuck?!
Kate: Yeah we're — we are about two months away from the 10 year anniversary of Homestuck's debut.
Dani: What are you doing for that, like podcast-wise?
Kate: Um, there will probably — I mean, I'm assuming there's gonna be some shit to talk about, so I'm gonna talk about it.
Dani: Why don't you just get Andrew Hussie on here?
Kate: [laughs] Yeah, you know my new best friend!
Dani: Your new bestie! You had drinks with him, so might as well...
Kate: I'd like — y'know I'd like to have Andrew on the show, we'll see.
Dani: We'll see.
Kate: The — the invitation is open. [laughs] Y'know, there's —
Dani: I was about to say something else but you can't cut it out, never mind. Never mind. Hello!
Kate: No, go on. Tell me.
Dani: I was gonna say like [laughs] Andrew Hussie I already cursed you out, will you please come on the show? Please?
Kate: [laughs] I think — I think everything you said was completely fair. And to be clear, like, I think that's — I think it's actually important and one of the good things about like, talking to people who know Andrew and getting the chance to talk to Andrew is that like, he's aware of his blind spots and aware of his fuckups. And we're now talking about serious shit instead of about Roxy again. But like, y'know, I — you had — here's the thing, is like, everything you said was fair and I think it was important to say, and I don't think anybody involved in the project in an official capacity like, disagrees with that. It's important for us to understand what's been done wrong in the past so we can think about how to make a media experience and like a fan community that's inclusive and better for the future.
Dani: Yeah, I got a really nice CuriousCat ask — at — wait, I'm sayin' words, hold on. I can get this together. Someone was just like — someone was like, "I love this new wave of non-white Homestuck because everyone used to make fun of me and my headcanons of the kids and trolls when I didn't see them as white. Thanks for being so — so unapologetic and making characters so relatable, like it's the entire reason why Homestuck is so good because you can make 'em whatever you want". And I felt really happy about that, that Homestuck is more an accepting community to non-white and different headcanons instead of like, 2013 Strider art where it was just like, white Dave and white Rose and shit like that. Like it's just like —
Kate: White Dave suuuucks so much!!
Dani: White Dave gives me hives, it's the reason why I can't sleep at night.
Kate: The only human of the eight where I personally — like, I personally think it's funny if they're white, is Dirk.
Kate: Just because like — just 'cause like — ugh, just — just 'cause it — first off, it just makes Bro — just like Bro's — like if Bro is white and Dave isn't it just makes that whole dynamic like, so much more like — ARGH!! Just like —
Kate: Why do you think he's cool!! Roxy, why do you have a crush on him?!
Dani: [laughs] We likin' white men now? Not in this home.
Dani: God, nah.
Kate: There was that — there was that comic that was — there was those comics recently that were about like, the Trickster arc that were really really good. It was like, "I'm something of a Caucasian myself". [laughs]
Dani: OH MY GOD! I was in the call when you were making those and I was like you guys need to stop!!
Kate: [laughs] Caucasian Woman?!
Dani: I'm so done — I was — it was the Homestuck of Color server and we were — I don't know where it came from — oh it came from a meme! And Shay[?] was just like, oh yeah Jake would definitely say that. And it was the worst. It was that and it was the Tom Cruise shit where Dave like, had baby powder on his face and I was crying —
Dani: And then fuckin' Roxy was like white and I had to kill Shay for that one.
Dani: I was like — what is going on?!
Kate: Well it fits with like, Taz's [optimisticDuelist's] interpretation of like the Trickster arc as — y'know, like again this like, concept of whiteness — and like it being horrific that the characters were depicted as white during this arc. Like it's a scary and bad thing and like, the characters are frightened by it!
Dani: It was just — Dirk was just like, "who is this white woman? My best friend is black."
Kate: Yeah! "What's happening?!" [laughs]
Dani: [laughs] Nah. Oh my god. I meant to Dream Daddy and people are getting annoying — oh no, sorry. We're talking about Roxy —
Kate: We're — why do you keep checking — this is like xtine level of just like, doing other shit [laughs] while recording the show! [laughs]
Dani: Who's xtine? You mean the tapeworm kid?
Dani: [laughs] No, okay. Roxy. Like I said, Roxy is not white —
Dani: Roxy is trans.
Dani: And Roxy is bi.
Dani: That is our show, guys.
Kate: Yeah. Lemme — let me circle up on Roxy being trans 'cause some people are like, well that's nice that you have this nice confident headcanon. It's like, no. It's literally canon motherfucker. It's literally canon. In her name reveal, the last two letters of her name 'XY' are revealed and they're called like — they're called a chromosomal designation in the text, in the page before her formal introduction. Like, I'm sorry. Roxy is a trans woman and — and if you don't see that in text then you can die mad about it.
Dani: Like, I talked to Hussie and Hussie said Roxy is trans to my face so it's true.
Kate: [hoots with laughter] Let's not —
Kate: Let's not just — let's not — hold on [laughs] hold on!
Dani: [laughs] No, it says it on page 586 of Homestuck. Roxy is trans!
Kate: No, but I — what I'm saying actually *is* in the text, we don't need to make up stuff.
Dani: What page is that?
Kate: It's — hold on, let me — homestuck dot com. Lemme go to homestuck dot com. [soft keyboard noises] Remember when it was mspaintadventures? [quoting] "The final two chromosomic symbols have been released from their fluffy, twitching prison. Your name is ROXY" and like it reveals — like, it's like Jaspers reveals the letters 'XY' and they're called chromosomic symbols.
Dani: Yeah, so Roxy be like *trans noises*.
Kate: Yeah exactly!
Dani: Nah, Roxy is also black. It says it on page 5826 of Homestuck.
Kate: [laughs] Uh-huh.
Dani: What — what page is that. We're not looking that up.
Kate: It's four — no, no, the page I'm talking about that actually exists is 4463. You said —
Dani: Are you saying my page doesn't exist? That's rude! Oh my god, Kate. Oh my god~
Kate: Okay I'm sorry. 5208 — hey Roxy's actually in 5208!
Dani: My mind. I'm powerful.
Kate: [laughs] It's the one where Dirk is just like, I'm just gonna steal her if you don't mind —
Dani: [squeals loudly]
Kate: She needs to come home.
Dani: [screams louder and more passionately] Sorry, I didn't mean to scream. That's literally the best! That's the best. That's the best. I was crying when Dirk grabbed her hand, I was just like — I was crying, literally sobbing on the floor, that's just how I feel about Dirk-Roxy.
Dani: But we're not talking about that yet, we're here to talk about how Roxy is perceived in the fandom.
Kate: Yeah it's true. So like, Roxy is introduced first to the reader as Mom Lalonde. And she's first seen by the reader as a reflection of her worst qualities, right? She's arbitrary, difficult to understand, hopelessly addicted to alcohol, and not like, communicating what she knows properly and that hurts Rose is a very deep way. And like, Rose has this strange relationship with her mother that her friends don't take seriously.
Kate: And then we see Roxy and we see, ah yes, this is just recontextualized Mom Lalonde. Like, flippant, addicted to alcohol, but the you also see the fact that her friends don't take her problems seriously either. Like Jane, who's her closest friend, her BFFsie —
Kate: Treats it as a — yeah, right, that's amusing, my academic voice.
Dani: You are *so old*!! [laughs]
Kate: [laughs] Will you *fucking* shut up??! [laughs]
Dani: [laughs] What? What? Kate what?! What was that word that you just used?
Kate: [yelling through laughter] FUCK OFF!!!
Kate: Fuck off!!!
Dani: Ugh, god! Alright, I'm sorry, go on.
Kate: No I don't have a point any more. You ruined it.
Dani: [laughs very hard] No! Oh I have a cramp — OW! Sorry —
Kate: Yeah that's what you get! That's what you get.
Dani: I'm dying.
Dani: No, Jane was like, Roxy you don't have an alcohol addiction and Roxy was just like, I guess! No people really didn't take it seriously as they should have, but again Roxy is a teenager with an alcohol addiction and it makes sense that — I mean it doesn't make sense that she has it, I'm not justifying that at all, but in the situation where she is surrounded by nothing but booze and she is one of the only people on the planet, what else are you gonna do?
Dani: And I feel like the way that her friends handled it at first was very wrong and they could've done better, but at the same time, they're teenagers! And they don't know how to deal with alcohol addiction!
Kate: Right, a lot of people hold so much shit against the Alpha kids for like, not being able to single-handedly manage the apocalypse *and* highly complicated interpersonal issues. And it's like, they're teenagers asshole!! They're some of the most authentically written teenagers, like, ever in media, and you gotta understand that they're not perfect! And they're doing their best, and they all do love each other in the end.
Dani: They do love each other. And I think it's really important that — people need to realize that the are teenagers and a lot of the things they do is because they're teenagers.
Dani: And they do that teenage angst shit and like all these crushes, Jane having a crush on Jake, Roxy having a crush on Dirk, Dirk having a crush on Jake — that's teenage shit. People have crushes on each other, especially when your friend group is so small, of course crushes are gonna develop.
Dani: And like, it's just like, when people — I just — when people talk about Roxy they — we can't have a conversation about Roxy's flaws if you don't acknowledge the fact that she's a teenager.
Kate: Yeah exactly. And also like, Roxy takes — like, takes a self-evaluation of those flaws. And like, once she's thrust into this position of importance and like, necessity, she realizes she can't have these problems because everyone else is relying on her. And so while the other three have like, sort of — like, dissolve into their own issues, Roxy works on her own problems and doesn't do it for acclaim. In fact it's barely noticed by the other friends in her life, or not said to her directly. Jane doesn't notice it, she even cruelly says "I liked you better when you were drinking" in a fit of pique. And like, Jake is just too caught up in his Jake shit to acknowledge anything about any other human person [laughs]
Dani: Jake be like a dumbass.
Dani: Dumbass noises.
Kate: Yeah you're right, you're right. That's why I like him. And — and Dirk is proud of her but doesn't say it because he's bad at expressing himself to other people and also because he feels guilty for not being able to return her affections. He feels insufficient for her and that's another weakness of Roxy's. It's not just the alcoholism, it's the fact that over the course of years she played out a sort of —
Kate: Yeah, a bad dynamic of — and here you go, if you're playing Perfectly Generic Podcast bingo at home you can go ahead and check off the comphet square — she goes through a bit of compulsory heterosexuality with her crush on Dirk.
Dani: Ugh. Yucky.
Kate: Yeah, exactly, very yucky. [laughs] And — and you know, and Dirk like, as a gay man, like can't return those affections and he feels pressured and he feels guilty about not being able to do that.
Dani: Yeah, that's life I guess.
Kate: It is!
Dani: You win some, you lose some.
Kate: People who love each other sometimes hurt each other. And that — I think it's important to recognize that that doesn't mean that you're an irredeemably awful person. 'Cause I don't think any—
Dani: Yeah! No, like —
Kate: 'Cause I don't think anybody thinks that about Roxy.
Dani: No. Oh well, y'know, kinnies, but sorry, no kin drama! Basically I just feel like a lot of people — when we're having conversations about Dirk and Roxy's friendship and Roxy's crush on Dirk, a lot of people say that, oh Roxy was just someone who was so forceful against Dirk and this and that, and to some extent that is true. She — I'm sorry — she went — like, she constantly mentioned that like she had affection for him and Dirk couldn't do anything 'cause he didn't like, feel the same way towards her. And I feel like if we are gonna have these conversations it's important to realize that as the story went on and as Roxy got older, she realized what she did was wrong.
Dani: And like, that's — that's really important because that's character development, something Jade never went through.
Dani: Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to be shitty. I love Jade.
Kate: Not a single lie was told!
Dani: I love Jade but maaan.
Kate: Jade go done a bit dirty by the narrative. I do not — I definitely do not — like this episode's not about Jade but I don't think that Jade — I don't think that Jade's narrative was extremely satisfying. I do feel like Jade's narrative says a lot about the nature of the world that the story is set in, and it ends up having like a ton of stirring visuals and really important moments. But she is mostly a vehicle for delivering that insight, a vehicle for delivering those important moments, and especially after her — well after her introduction the story starts to lose sight of providing the reader insight into how she feels about all these important developments that she's a part of.
Dani: Yeah, like when she killed Dave I was like, so are we gonna find out like, if she feels guilty about it? Nope! I guess not!
Dani: She like deadass killed Dave! I was just like, bro! That's your best friend!
Kate: It happens. Sometimes you just kill your best friend, that's like how paradox space goes.
Dani: [laughs] Fuck. Oh god. So yeah. I — in the long term Roxy is just a teenager goin' through really bad addiction and she was very young. And she has very little support and it's really important to realize that with very little support it's hard to get things done, but eventually she does do it by herself. And I feel like personally she did it for herself, even — she did it, she got sober for herself so she could help her friends better. And one thing that Roxy does is that — if I had Roxy's birth chart — I'm talking about zodiac shit so ignore me for a second — if I had her birth chart I would feel like she would have a very strong Virgo moon, because she has that mothering nature in her that she wants to protect her friends, she wants to help her friends, and in some instances she's doing everything she can to help them out. Like there's — there was a point in the comic where she was getting — like it was visibly — she was getting visibly frustrated because she couldn't do what she wanted to do to help people and it was pissing her off. And her getting sober was like that key thing, 'cause while she was sober she was responsive, she was able to do things better. And she like, single-handedly, y'know, helped save the universe by killing Condy.
Kate: Mhmm! It's true, she does, she's the one that kills the Condesce.
Dani: She was like, "damn bitch, you live like this? Not any more", and then bam, a knife. A knife. A katana? A sword?
Kate: Yeah it was like Brain Ghost Dirk's sword, right? [transcriber's note: it was Bro's sword]
Dani: Yeah. It was somethin'. But she killed her herself, and that's really important because against all odds against her she did that shit. She literally killed someone who was tormenting her life —
Dani: Like the reason she was in that situation, she couldn't go outside, she couldn't do whatever she wanted because of that fuckin' bitch right there!
Kate: It's also —
Dani: And she killed her!
Kate: Yeah, it's also fascinating because she plays such an immense role in like the fate of the troll race, and killing the tyrant and then — and before that recreating the Matriorb, which again to talk about the Virgo connections and to tie this back to last week, like Roxy and Kanaya get along well and it's Roxy that manages to fulfil the mom character's — like, they're both the two mom characters. Roxy was introduced first as just the concept of 'Mom'. And like, y'know, Kanaya's obviously got all those connections to motherhood as well. And Roxy's the one that — that brings back the troll race from extinction and fulfils that motherly purpose for Kanaya.
Dani: Yeah. Like, Roxy — and I think another reason why Roxy and Kanaya got along so well is because they both had this similarity of their love for Rose. Kanaya loved Rose 'cause that's her fucking wife.
Dani: And then Roxy saw that Kanaya was making Rose happy and Rose is so important to Roxy because Roxy looked up to her mom so much, even if her mom wasn't in her life. She looked up to her so much. And like, when she finally met Rose she was like, everything that Roxy wanted her to be. Like when they hugged for like, what seemed like hours, that was just like so important to her because Roxy grew up by herself and she always envisioned this perfect person and that's what Rose was. And I guess I feel like Roxy can connect with Kanaya 'cause they're both like mom friends and that also they both value Rose so much.
Kate: Mhmm. Absolutely.
Dani: And I just — I just — [audibly emotional] I'm tearing up a little because it's just like breathtaking bro —
Kate: I know! I know, the conversation between Roxy and Kanaya where like Roxy delivers Kanaya the Matriorb is like one of those things that really gets me in the heart in Homestuck. It's — it's two queer women having a connection over like, this universally important care and compassion and connection to motherhood in a way that's really revolutionary. I like Homestuck actually.
Dani: Yeah, Homestuck can be good [coughs] sometimes.
Kate: [laughs] This — you're still — you're still undecided!
Dani: Sometimes! I mean, it is good when y'all don't be acting stupid. But —
Kate: [laughs] That's what we're here for.
Dani: Which is a lot.
Kate: That's what we're trying to do with this podcast.
Dani: Not act stupid?
Kate: We're trying to not act stupid and give other people the tools to not act stupid together. You can judge for yourself whether or not I act stupid on this show 'cause I do a lot.
Dani: Kate I know you ain't stupid. I'm the stupid one here, I got the one braincell. We sharin' it.
Kate: Yeah, Homestuck fans collectively share one braincell and I try to use it once a week but usually I'm not using it. Usually optimisticDuelist is using it.
Dani: Yeah. Yeah. Please read their things. They're good!
Kate: Yeah, he's actually — he's actually got a new essay that is coming out very soon and I've gotten to read it already, and I am really really excited about it.
Dani: Wow, their mind.
Dani: I could never.
Kate: [laughs] So yeah, get hype about that. Let's see here.
Dani: What's next?
Kate: Let's talk about — well let's — okay, so part of Roxy's like, getting over her comphet crush on Dirk and dealing with her own issues is also recognizing that like, there's been this figure in her life that's really important to her this whole time, and that's Calliope.
Dani: Yeah! Oh my god, gay bitch noises.
Kate: Gay bitch noises! Welcome to the Gay Bitch Podcast.
Dani: [laughs] No, I feel like Roxy didn't appreciate Calliope as much as she should've when she was younger, because she did that thing that a lot of teenage girls do, that when they have a crush they forget about their friends.
Dani: And that's typical 'cause I know I did it as a teenager, I saw my friends do that when we were teenagers. But as Roxy got older and she got — she became more mature and she became more understanding, she appreciated her friends because at the end of the day it's just your friends. Even if you have a significant other, it's just your friends, because marriages don't last, relationships don't last, people come and go. But your friends are always gonna be there at the end. And I feel like that's kinda blossomed their relationships during Earth C. Calliope's always been there for Roxy and Roxy didn't realize it until a bit later. But she — I don't know — I'm not sure if this is explicitly said but I feel like it's like heavily implied that like, she realized that this girl has been here all my fuckin' life and I appreciate her so much I want to be her fucking girlfriend! And they're fucking girlfriends! Actually they're married but that's besides the point.
Kate: So — yeah, so it's not explicitly stated in the text, but like Roxy does say when she gets the ring of life that she wants to give this ring — like she just is struck with this idea that she's going to give this ring to the person that she marries. And then she gives the ring to Calliope.
Dani: That's her fucking wife, bro!
Kate: That's her fucking wife, bro!
Dani: [laughs] Oh my god, I'm gonna stop talking like that.
Kate: Why? 'Cause then I repeat it and then I sound awful?
Dani: He was a skater boy, she — no, we're done.
Kate: [academic voice] He was a skater boy. She said: see ya later boy. [laughs]
Dani: We're *done*, Kate!!
Dani: We're done, this is the end of the podcast, I can't do this shit any more.
Kate: My fucking academic voice just slays you.
Dani: We're done! It's over.
Kate: [leaning into the mic] BFFsie. [laughs]
Dani: Guys, I — Kate's cutting out a lot right now —
Kate: [laughing in the distance]
Dani: But I just want you to know that it's probably for the better.
Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Fuckin' — oh man.
Dani: We're dying. We're — collectively our braincells just —
Kate: [laughs] We don't have any braincells! We're done with braincells! We didn't even record yesterday 'cause we were both just like "I'm too stupid to record a podcast today". [laughs]
Dani: Yeah I was just like, I'm *tired*. I drove —
Kate: I had my — dude, I had my first — my team had their first match on Saturday and so I was just beat the day after. It was my first day off in ages. Like I — whenever — listeners, you have to understand why I'm a dumbass on this show, it's 'cause I'm recording on my one day off ever. I'm not even off right now! I'm just like — I'm literally just like taking an hour and then I'm going back to work after this.
Dani: Yeah Kate gets no days off. Kate just dies, and —
Kate: Yeah, it's true.
Dani: That — that sucks. No, I was just like —
Kate: Gotta get that bread.
Dani: Gotta get that bread! Gotta get that education, I've had a long day. College just sucks! No, college is great. Go to school. Stay in school kids. Roxy would want you to stay in school, so stay in school. Do you guys ever think about how people forget that Roxy's like, y'know, really smart?
Kate: It's true. It's so true.
Dani: She is — she is Dummy Smart — okay I regret saying that already, but —
Kate: [trying to speak through laughter] She's Dummy Smart — alright well that's the title of this episode: Roxy is Dummy Smart.
Dani: Oh my fucking god! [laughs] Oh god. No, Roxy's really smart! She's a fucking hacker — when she met Dave for the first time she was like — Dave's like "tell me about yourself" and Roxy's just like "Um, well you know I do hacking". Dave's like "what" and she's like "no I mean, computer programming", like she was so excited to talk about her hobbies. And people just like, forget about that! Like she's a hacker, she's super into video games, she writes, like she writes to relate to her mother — like her fanfictions. She's got — she has all these hobbies that are all overshadowed 'cause people just think she's an alcoholic. But no, Roxy's Dummy Smart. She mad a bunch of fucking cats because she wanted to. Like, she's — I feel like during — like one of my popular headcanons is that during Earth C she went to school and got like, several degrees because she fucking could.
Dani: And I just feel like — like she is very intelligent and people often forget that because like, people just don't, y'know, care. But at the same time I just feel like people knew she was really smart, like she fucking sent a virus to blow up Jane's computer. Like, it's — it's been known that this bitch smart shit, but —
Kate: That's a — that's a parallel between Roxy and Sollux.
Dani: I mean, they're fuckin' hacker bros!
Dani: They play Minecraft together.
Kate: Yeah! Dude where's Sollux? I miss that guy.
Dani: Where he at?
Kate: Where is he?
Dani: No, I just think that people just overshadow that. Like this bitch is smart as shit. And if the game was — wasn't like real-life shit where people were real-life dying, if it was just like a Minecraft game, she would've won in like two seconds.
Kate: She won it anyway! She killed the Condesce and then they all won!
Dani: I mean, yeah, duh!
Kate: I think it's funny that like, when putting together this outline and then also like talking about her relationships for like, a while, neither of us even thought to talk about John.
Dani: [gasps] John/Roxy!!! Is *good* actually!
Kate: [um actually tone] Alright.
Dani: The hets won with that one. No. John/Roxy is cute, I honestly —
Kate: It is cute.
Dani: I can't get mad at it 'cause like, the hets won.
Dani: The hets — no, Sollux and Aradia said m/f rights —
Kate: Yeah they did.
Dani: But that's besides the point. No, John/Roxy is really cute, in that when John and Roxy first met I was just like, "they like each other". Like, I don't know if I felt that romantically but I knew like, they would be friends, because they're both like — they're not similar but they're not different either.
Dani: Like they could just get along.
Kate: They have a great dynamic, they bounce off each other in a really interesting way.
Dani: Yeah. And like John's a dummy bitch, and Roxy's not a dummy bitch but they like, they make it work. And John/Roxy, like, personally I like John/Roxy. It's not my favorite Roxy ship but I can appreciate it, especially since like there's canon content and there's not a lot of canon content for my favorite ships but you know that's besides the point.
Kate: What is your favorite Homestuck ship?
Dani: I don't have one. Just kidding! It's Tula/Roxy — actually it changes a lot but right now it's Tula/Roxy. Latula and Roxy, 'cause they're gamer girlfriends.
Kate: Damn, that's sick as hell. That's definitely not one I see a lot of, but that's — that's a good as hell idea!
Dani: Fucking, Tula teaches her how to skate and I'm just like [very emotional] [sniffs] this is True Love, man. They're fucking girlfriends, they stream together — lemme stop before I actually start crying. Yeah, John/Roxy is good. I like Jade/Roxy, they're science bros I guess, science girlfriends.
Kate: Yeah. Jane/Callie/Roxy was strongly implied in those post-game Snapchats, that's for sure.
Dani: Oh yeah, I mean yeah for sure. I feel like post-game Jade — not Jade — Jane got like — I feel like Jane like apologized and y'know, realized that she was wrong about Roxy and they kinda just made up and now they're girlfriends.
Dani: What else —
Kate: Let's get some listener questions in here.
Dani: Are we gonna talk about listener questions?
Kate: I mean — these folks — yeah! Why wouldn't we?
Dani: Are we? Are we? Alright. Let's see.
Kate: [laughs] So first off everybody asked like — every asked shit like "is Roxy trans?" Yes. "Is Roxy bisexual?" Yes. "Why is Roxy so cool?" Yes. "Who is best girl?" Obviously you think it's Roxy.
Dani: Roxy best girl.
Dani: Roxy be like, best girl noises.
Kate: I still — again, every time this question gets asked to the guest I just get to say again that Terezi's the best girl.
Dani: Terezi *is* good.
Dani: Terezi/Roxy also works. My mind!
Kate: It does! It's true. Terezi's just got — Terezi's just a chad, she just works with most people. But not Gamzee, fuck Gamzee.
Dani: What the fuck is that!? We don't talk about demons. What is a demon?! Whaaat?!
Kate: [laughs] Let's see, Hivestuck413 on Twitter says "Roxy smokes weed?" Yes, Roxy smokes *big* weed.
Dani: All the weed.
Kate: All the weed.
Dani: Roxy got a dispensary but it's just her selling herself weed.
Kate: Yeah, like on — on Earth C, like even though everyone's like gods, like Roxy's the only one who knows how to get weed.
Dani: Yeah! Oh my god.
Kate: Everyone's always like, Roxy can I get some — can you get me some weed please?
Dani: You know what?! We didn't talk about Roxy and Dave!! I'm sorry, that's important to me.
Kate: Oh yeah! So like — so that's the thing is like Dave has this shitty father figure in his life and what Dave really needs is a mom! And Roxy —
Dani: Dave needs a hug.
Kate: Dave needs a hug and a mom, and like Roxy — Dave just like straight up calls Roxy "mom", which Rose doesn't do [she almost does]. And it's — it's like adorable.
Dani: Yeah Dave is like [very emotional voice] "this is my mom?!" and Dave just like — I can just imagine Dave and Roxy like, having a cuddle pile for a while —
Dani: Because Dave never — never got physical attention growing up and then he met Roxy and Roxy's just like, "I will give you a hug forever".
Dani: And they — Roxy probably gives him forehead kisses, like, with her lipstick, and Dave like, knows that her lipstick is on his forehead, but he don't care! He just wears it with pride 'cause he's like "this is my *momma's* kiss" —
Dani: "I'm a momma's boy."
Kate: He's a momma's boy! Dave becomes a momma's boy, real, not clickbait.
Dani: Not clickbait! [laughs]
Dani: No, I think that Dave and Roxy would definitely get along, like besides the fact that like the mom/son relationship — like no, they're practically — I'm not saying — they're not the same person but they have very similar interests, and I think that Roxy and Dave were like — Roxy would teach Dave all these retro video games and Dave would be like "look at my photos and my dead stuff!" and Roxy would be like "this is gross, but I love you son!"
Dani: And I just think it's like, really important. Also, speaking of video games, Roxy's a Kirby main but that's besides the point.
Kate: Okay, I see that. I see that.
Dani: She's such a Kirby main.
Kate: In Melee though — here's the thing, is Roxy doesn't play a low-tier, so like she plays Kirby in games where Kirby's good, but like —
Kate: But in Melee, like, she plays Peach.
Dani: Oh for sure! She probably plays Peach in Ultimate 'cause Peach really has like, the best Ult, but that's besides the point. Roxy —
Kate: Yep. Peach in Ultimate — Peach is pretty good in Ultimate, it's true. She's like, she's definitely high-tier.
Dani: It's like, Peach, Zelda and Princess Daisy have the best ult in the game, I'm pretty sure. That's what girls deserve.
Kate: [laughs] To be fair — outta — I'm gonna push up my glasses and be like well at the tournament level they don't play with Final Smashes on.
Dani: Yeah... that's okay though.
Dani: 'Cause we love them anyways, 'cause gays won.
Kate: [laughs] Let's see. "Is it possible Void is the strongest Aspect? What does Roxy's relationship to her aspect say about her character and her arc?" says exoskeletalIV.
Dani: I dunno.
Kate: [laughs] Yeah! Right! I mean — let's see. And this fits with Natjuno's question on Discord: "do you think the Aspect of Void affects relationships between the Alpha kids? Where can we see the Void aspect at work in Homestuck?" Every horse. Horses are void-coded. Alcohol is void-coded. Pumpkins are void-coded. And Roxy is surrounded by all of these things and all of these symbols. And also like, Roxy is in a void session, the Alpha kids are in a void session and so she's the natural — the like, the secret leader who emerges from a void session, the secret victor of such a session. And you see it also in Roxy's pre-scratch self, right, the alcoholism, the social disconnect, the inability to like get beyond that is fundamentally Void-y. And you see it even in Hiveswap where you get a glimpse of the younger pre-scratch Roxy, the younger Mom Lalonde serving as Jude and Joey's babysitter, the negligent babysitter. Who's the nonetheless still their mom friend, still their like, only source of parenting because of — because pre-scratch Jake fucking sucks. [laughs]
Dani: He sucks.
Kate: He sucks so *bad*!
Dani: Jake be like —
Kate: Grandpa sucks so fucking bad.
Dani: Jake be like dumbass and then y'all got mad at me for saying Jake that dumb, and then I was like, I'm right —
Kate: Here's the thing, is that Jake — is that all of the guardians are an exploration of the Alpha kids in their worst states. And like — except for Nanna, who's just not interesting.
Dani: [bursts out laughing]
Kate: Which is — which is to be fair, Jane at her worst is not interesting. [laughs]
Dani: Jane be like boring.
Kate: [laughs] No, she's not is the thing! But if you —
Dani: Please don't get mad at me for saying that.
Kate: Yeah. I — no, Jane is not boring, I think that Jane is very interesting, but this episode isn't about her so I'm not gonna get into it. But like, y'know, Jake — like, all the guardians are like the bad version of their pre-scratch selves, like — from the pre-scratch guardians. The post-scratch guardians are like —
Dani: Especially Bro.
Kate: The post-scratch guardians are just like the best versions of themselves, right, like Alpha Dave and Alpha Rose are like super important — like they're like, resistance figures.
Dani: Alpha Dave is hot.
Kate: [laughs] Everyone wants to —
Dani: He don't have a face, but he's hot.
Kate: Here's the thing, is like, I support your right to like — to be thirsty for Alpha Dave because I'm just as thirsty for Alpha Rose. Like, y'know — like every prominent female celebrity, like, Alpha Rose slept with. She was just —
Dani: Oh for sure! Rose was definitely giving out [a few notes of Megalovania play] sorry, that's NSFW. Sorry!
Dani: Y'all hear some'n?
Kate: [laughs] I'm just gonna — I don't even know, should I bleep that? [laughs]
Dani: I — that was really NSFW.
Kate: Yeah it was, I'm gonna bleep it. I don't wanna get that fat E (explicit) tag on the iTunes podcast directory [laughs]
Dani: Rose was giving out lots of love and affection. That's what she was giving out.
Kate: Yeah there we go, there we go! [laughs]
Dani: She was like, "imma steal your bitch" —
Dani: And she did.
Dani: You ever think about how Alpha Rose like, went to like celebrity parties and then she left with everyone's wives?
Kate: Yeah, absolutely. [laughs]
Dani: She had the sauce.
Kate: She had the sauce.
Dani: And then Alpha Dave was like, "um, I don't like parties but imma go here anyways", and then — we're not talking about them. I think Alpha Dave and Roxy would be best friends because Alpha Dave is a dumbass and Roxy's just like, "please do better". And she would probably be his assistant. But that's besides the point, I have a lot of headcanons, let's not talk about that.
Kate: You're just — so you're just like — so we're just like live-writing a really good AU fic.
Dani: I'm writing fanfiction as we speak!
Kate: Yeah! Welcome — yeah, welcome to the show. I — I do wanna do podfic on this show at some point, we'll see about that.
Dani: Shit, please! I'll come and [audio cuts out] Roxy!
Kate: [laughs] Let's see. Let me think. I — I posted a fic today! It's a short one, it's a thousand words.
Dani: I have to read it, I have to read it.
Kate: It's a nice little bitesized fic. I wrote Tavros! People —
Kate: People would not expect this of me: I wrote Tavros, and I did it sympathetically.
Dani: [gasp] Your mind.
Kate: The accords are upheld.
Dani: Your mind.
Kate: Ugh, my mind.
Dani: [slow claps]
Kate: Well man, I don't really — what do — what else we got to talk about? This is like — when I first started this show I thought, oh the episodes are gonna be 45 minutes. And we're sitting at — we're sitting, like, almost at 45 right now and I'm like, wow. This is remarkable.
Dani: You don't have to go 45, we can go an hour and thirty like we did with racism.
Kate: Uh-huh, I'm just like — I'm just — I'm kinda out of stuff.
Dani: I'm not!
Kate: My braincell is fried. Alright, keep going then! Just you go — you go, I'll just sit here.
Dani: Alright, I'm just gonna go through this real quick. Roxy/Vriska friendship? Yes. Because if Roxy can get along with Jane she can definitely get along with Vriska —
Dani: And Jane and Vriska are mean girls.
Kate: They are, they're mean girls.
Dani: Roxy'd be like, you're trying to be mean to me? Bad. And then she would exploit every one of Vriska's flaws.
Dani: And then Vriska'd be like, I can respect you.
Dani: Thoughts on Callie/Jane/Roxy? Yes. That's my thought. Yes. Roxy trans? We already said that. Roxy very trans. What did I put in here. Oh, do you think — oh wait, we already answered that one. I can read. "Roxy tends to get treated as the cleanest Alpha by the fandom, the most healthy/kindest to her friends, but personally I think she struggles as much as the rest of them." I think we already kinda touched on that —
Dani: But — long story short, Roxy is the Alpha, as Alpha of the Alpha kids. She is that bitch and I feel like if Roxy — Roxy's kinda like the base that's holding shit together. And without Roxy —
Kate: That's how John and Roxy are parallels!
Kate: They both — they both solve other people's problems first. While sublimating their own.
Dani: Sure. John got issues but this is not a John episode. Have you had a John episode?
Kate: I have not had a John episode.
Dani: Why *haven't* you had a John episode?!
Kate: I — I don't — I don't know, that's a really damn good question.
Dani: Who loves John that much to talk about him for an hour?
Dani: Yeah. Yeah.
Kate: That guy just likes protagonists.
Dani: [laughs] Pale Dirk/Roxy rights? Absolutely. Pale Dirk/Roxy is so important, I feel like their friendship is really important and I didn't realize how important it is to have that male best friend in your life until recently when I had a male best friend that I could trust. I feel like it's really important just to have that one person that you can rely on for — for whatever. And that's what Dirk and Roxy were to each other, and I think they're good. They're good. They're good. I can say words, guys. You know, I'm in like — I've been old. And — I've been old. And I've been speaking English all my life. I can't speak it any more, I don't know what happened. It just kinda went out the window with my braincells. Right Kate?
Kate: Yeah! [laughs] I — yeah. I have got no —
Kate: I frequently find myself at a loss for words. Well, not really. I frequently find myself rambling and not actually saying anything meaningful.
Kate: [laughs] Yeah there we go, that's the more Dave way to do it.
Dani: Do you think that Roxy would ever like, be a part of Crockercrop — Crocker — CrockerCorp?
Kate: No! She grew up hating CrockerCorp! I'll bet you she has some pretty choice issues with — with Jane choosing to perpetuate capitalism on a new world. Or maybe I'm just projecting.
Dani: Capitalism be like, bad. [laughs] Capitalism kills guys. Communism is the way to go.
Kate: It sucks! It *sucks*. Dude, here's the problem, is that Jane and Jake get into a new world and they're just like, you know what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make a corporation. Like I'm gonna keep doing cap— I'm gonna keep performing capitalism on a world where I'm literally a god and we can do whatever.
Dani: That's the worst.
Kate: It *sucks*.
Dani: Bro, capitalism sucks. The fact that you like, work until you die? That sucks.
Kate: It's true.
Dani: That could never be me. I have a question for you.
Dani: How do you think that her — Roxy's drinking was handled by Hussie, like do you think it was handled correctly, would you like to see things differently? Like would you rather it be a different substance like if Roxy was addicted to weed —
Dani: Addicted To Weed.
Kate: [through laughter] Addicted to weed! No I would not rather it be that!
Kate: I — here's the thing, is I really think that the serious issues that were like, tackled in the second half of Homestuck were actually done in a really good way. And they were done in a way that like, resonates a lot more with young readers than like, the sort of sanitized and like, after-school special-y way that like a lot of media that deals with these complicated issues does. Like, I think that — I think that it is important that Homestuck like, has two of its major characters struggle with alcoholism at a young age. And like, I think it's important that it shows two different viable paths out of that, it shows, y'know — a self-improvement path that Roxy takes and the like, support of — like, y'know a support system that Rose takes. I think — yeah, I think it is — I think the serious issues and like the big teen problems handled in Homestuck are actually done really well. I'm a noted positivist on these things.
Dani: Yeah, honestly the second half of Homestuck is good! Except the ending. But we don't wanna talk about that right now.
Kate: Oh what's your beef with the ending? I actually do wanna talk about it right now.
Dani: I don't like it. I don't like it. I'm just — I just feel like — 'cause wasn't there like a year break before the last update and the ending? I can't remember how long that break was.
Dani: I just feel like a lot of it was just kinda like, put into one. Like we didn't get a lot of closure as we would like. And that sucks, but it — everything does have to end, I just felt like it wasn't done properly. Like I just remember just feeling disappointed with it, like "what the fuck is this?" Where's — where's the love that I thought was gonna happen? Where's the reunions? Where's the Dirk/Rose interaction? Where is it?
Kate: See — see the thing is, is that — so growing up I was a big fan of the Series of Unfortunate Events series of books.
Dani: Oh I remember those.
Kate: Which also end on a really ambiguous and unresolved note. And a lot of folks my age at the time were super upset, or they had a — y'know, they felt a little betrayed or let down by the ending. And I always liked it 'cause it left me more to think about. I think that if Homestuck ended with a lotta closure then I wouldn't have this show and it'd be a lot less interesting to talk about it.
Dani: I feel like he did leave a lot of things to fan interpretation, and that's how fanon things came to life.
Kate: Yeah. And y'know, you see some of those fanon things like actually implemented in like, Hiveswap Friendsim, you see some concepts that fans originated brought to the canon. And I have to imagine that that will continue to happen as the property moves forward. And there's also of course the fact that like, Homestuck isn't over. Like it's — y'know, it's — there's unresolved things that will be resolved in the future with Homestuck, like there's — there is more Homestuck coming for all of us one day and we are not ready. [laughs]
Dani: I'm not ready, bro.
Dani: Bro, epilogue? Bro...epilogue? Bro. Kate, for the 2020 Homestuck calendar can we get Roxy/Jane/Callie wedding? With John as her boyfriend? That'd be good, I like that.
Dani: That's the shit I like. Can Roxy just date everyone? What?
Kate: That's what she — it's what she deserves!
Dani: It's what she deserves! All the love she wasn't given when she was younger, she deserves it now!
Kate: It's true.
Dani: Also — also Kanaya would make her dress and I like that bond of Roxy trying on her wedding dress and she's crying and Kanaya's crying and Rose is crying and just — my mind. I'm powerful.
Dani: I need to stop talking about Roxy.
Kate: Alright, well then that's our show! Thank you so much for listening to the Perfectly Generic Podcast. Let's see. You can find the show at perfectlygenericpodcast.com — you can find it on the iTunes store, the Spotify podcast directory, the Google Play store —
Dani: Wait, we on Spotify?
Kate: We are on Spotify.
Dani: What the fuck!? Since when?!
Kate: Since somebody asked me to put it on Spotify and then I did.
Dani: What the fuck?!
Dani: [gasps] Your mind.
Kate: [laughs] The Perfectly Generic Podcast is gonna be live from the Guildhall Bar in Burbank, California, on March 24th. And this is important: it's at a new time. It was originally gonna be at 4.30pm, it is now going to be at 6pm. March 24th at 6pm and the Guildhall Bar in Burbank, California. You can go to perfectlygenericpodcast.com/live or click the link in the description to RSVP.
Dani: I won't be there.
Kate: You won't be there, it's true.
Dani: I'll be there in spirit.
Kate: Yeah. And we will post a recording on the podcast feed afterwards. Guests are gonna be —
Dani: Are you guys gonna —
Kate: Kate — wait that's me! [laughs]
Dani: [laughs] Me?
Kate: Yeah, that's — Austin, Heather, the art — the writer, artist and the co-creators of Vast Error; Paige, who you might remember from our Skaianet episode; Aysha Farah, writer for Skaianet Systems, The Strange Case of Starship Iris, Hiveswap Friendsim; optimisticDuelist, the writer and essayist; James Roach, musician, the audio director for Hiveswap; Pip, writer artist and the head of transcription for the Perfectly Generic Podcast; and Dia, artist and writer who you may remember from the troll biology episode.
Dani: The worst episode.
Kate: It was the best episode, fuck you! [laughs]
Dani: The worst episode. What the fuck was that, bro!
Dani: OHHHKAY, goodbye Kate! Nah, and you guys can catch me at @lalonders [spells it out], @hstiktoks — I think that's just h-s-tiktoks — I dunno, I'm probably — what, stupid. And then I run the Homestuck Appreciation account, so if you ever see when a prompt's there please participate. Seadweller week is coming up soon. Are you ready to see a bunch of Cronus art, Kate?
Kate: [laughs darkly, hums] As long as — as long as the — and of course my obsession with Eridan will continue [laughs]
Dani: Ffffffuck, god. Don't let Hexa hear you!
Kate: [laughs] I don't *like* him! I just can't stop — he lives rent-free in my head, I can't stop thinking about him, I can't stop bringing him up.
Dani: We didn't talk about Eridan this —
Kate: I talked about Eridan with Andrew Hussie, I didn't talk about Rose or Roxy, I talked about *Eridan*.
Dani: I see where you fucked up, bro.
Kate: I'm a broken person.
Dani: We didn't talk about Eridan this podcast.
Kate: We didn't, it's true. Until now. You can find me at twitter.com/gamblignant8, which is my Homestuck account. You can find my main, where I talk about Overwatch League which I work in, at —
Dani: Overwatch League.
Kate: Yeah. You got a problem?
Dani: That's the joke. Um, yeah?
Dani: Where's the black women at, bro?!
Kate: Okay, well there's a — that's a damn good question [laughs] Yeah, there's a — that's a damn good question and it's definitely like, something that weighs on me every day is like, how not-diverse our — 'cause this is a world— this is a global league and it should have global representation and it should have — it should be a league that looks like the fans that cheer for it, which is more diverse than any other esport ever. And it's not, and we can all — like, all of us that work in the league can think about and try to implement ways to make that better, and I promise that's something I'm thinking about.
Dani: Kate is doing an amazing job and I am one of the — the fuck, the fuck — defense — OH GOD DAMN — the Kate Defense Squad. I got it.
Kate: Thank you.
Dani: And Kate is doing a lot of amazing things for the community, and I think that we should just have the Kate Appreciation Day.
Kate: Thank you.
Dani: No — no Kate is just like busting their ass on this community and y'all are ungrateful, and also on Overwatch. And they're somewhat grateful but not as much as I would be.
Dani: And I just think that we should just give Kate like a round of applause. We're clapping now? Imma clap for you [claps] we're clapping right now.
Kate: [clearly a bit flustered] Okay, okay this is weird. This is now weird.
Kate: [trying to move along quickly] The intro music — [laughs]
Dani: NO! NO! Kate is good, please appreciate Kate more!
Kate: Thank you —
Dani: And tell them how much you love this podcast. Please don't be weird to them, please.
Kate: [trying to hold it together] The intro music this week is "perfectly generic" by goomy, the President-for-Life —
Kate: Of the Perfectly Generic music team. You can find goomy at fruitytee — smoothie — god, FUCK.
Kate: smoothiefruitee.bandcamp.com, there's a link in the description. The outro music is "Beatrice" by me, which is the theme of Secily Iopara, who's one of the trolls that's just been revealed in Vast Error's Trollodex, check out twitter.com/syndicationVE for more details on that as we reveal the cast for a new project that's happening that I'm doing — it's a thing. I think we're done. I think I did it. I think we did the —
Dani: You did it!
Kate: I think we did the show.
Dani: We did it.
Kate: We're gonna talk about dancestors next week.
Dani: Are we?! Oh shit no.
Kate: Yeah, well you're not.
Dani: I mean you are —
Dani: Have fun with that (!)
Kate: [laughs] Alright —
Dani: Talk about — talk about how Meulin doesn't have — never mind. Go on! Bye guys!