Episode 17: Race & Racism

Dani and Hexa take on how race and racism has played out in Homestuck and its community. Subjects include those Team Special Olympics comics, the terrible boredom of White Striders, Her Imperious Condescension, colorism, and Eridan being the worst.

Listen to this episode at https://perfectlygenericpodcast.com/updates/episodes/17

Transcript
Hexa: The Perfectly Generic Podcast contains spoilers, occasionally adult language, and Vriska. You’ve been warned.

[Intro]

Hexa: Attention pgenpod listeners, we have officially usurped Kate’s tyrannical control of this podcast, in order to talk about like, racism and stuff. Hello.

Dani: Hi guys this took us, like, 3 hours to do.

Hexa: Yeah.

Dani: I want to die.

Hexa: It’s like that sometimes, apparently. Someone’s out to get us.

Dani: Someone’s out to get us! I don’t know who but someone’s out to get us, and I’m dying, currently, at this moment.

Hexa: Alright, so, I am Hexa. That’s all I have to say about myself.

Dani: You’re not gonna give them like your @, your Twitter @?

Hexa: I’m not, I’ll save that for the end.

Dani: What? Okay well I’m not! I’m Dani, I’m @lalonders, I’m the coolest cool cat alive.

Hexa: This is so stupid!

Dani: This is sooo dumb!

Hexa: This is so stupid! I was like looking at my paper notes and I was like “ah yeah this isn’t the stuff we have to talk about.” So yeah, Kate, Kate is not here today, umm, because we’re talking about racism, ummm—

Dani: Kate is over there, having the greatest of their life.

Hexa: Honestly yeah, it’s taken us 2 hours to get to this point. So let’s just like jump into it. What is your, uhh. Well we know the traditional way to start these podcast episodes, which is to talk about like your convoluted deep Homestuck origin story. So why don’t you tell us how you started Homestuck.

Dani: Well, it all started when I was born.

Hexa: [laughs]

Dani: No. umm, I don’t know how old I was in 2013, I don’t feel like doing some math right now. But, in 2013 I had just gotten out of my band phase.

Hexa: [laughs]

Dani: Shut up! I was really emo in 2013, I was like into like Fallout Boy, and Panic! At the Disco. You know. And other emo bands—

Hexa: Yep. Well I can’t relate, but I can relate a little bit.

Dani: Nah I was into the—

Hexa: My emo phase was like my anime phase, basically.

Dani: Ooh! Well I never had one of those, I’m so thankful. Anime sucks! Just kidding, umm—

Hexa: [laughs]

Dani: No, I just got out of my band phase, and I was like “I need something to hyperfix on” and then I met one of my friends. ‘Cause, one of my friends from my Youtube phase the year before, I’m not talking about that, umm, she was like “you should read this webcomic” so, she got me to Homestuck. And that was the worst decision of my life. Umm—

Hexa: [laughs]

Dani: And then I started RP’ing Dave. Which I feel like everyone started RP’ing Dave. Like when you start RP’ing you start with Dave. Or John.

Hexa: Oh yeah, yeah. It’s ‘cause he’s like the internet. He kind of embodies the voice of the internet, almost.

Dani: That’s the internet man.

Hexa: Yeah. Especially since he basically talks like how the internet talks today.

Dani: Pretty much. Umm, and then I was like “I don’t want to do this anymore” so I stopped for like a couple months and then I read more Homestuck and then I got into Roxy and I was like “that’s my bitch right there, that, that girl right there? That’s my bitch. I love her so much.” Umm and then I just started—

Hexa: And here we are?

Dani: Yeah! Like, it’s been, it was five years since I made that RP account, in August.

Hexa: A very long time. That’s like the entire expanse of my whole online life.

Dani: I’m old.

Hexa: My Homestuck backstory is a lot more, it’s well, it’s not, okay there were 3 reasons, there are 3 reasons I got into Homestuck. The first was, like, I tried to read it back in like 2015 or something, ‘cause like I had a friend who was really into Homestuck, and they were like “Oh yeah you should really read it” and I read like the first page and I was like “I, I can’t?” And then like, 2016, everyone on my Tumblr dash is like freaking out about how it’s ending and whatever whatever. And then there was one post that was going around just like “Guys, do you think like I could read the entirety of Homestuck and like catch up in a week before like Act 7 drops? Right?” and then there’s this whole post going like “ah yeah you have to read like 20 hours a day or whatever” right? So, because I’m a very spiteful and competitive person I took that as a personal challenge, except I only saw that post after Act 7 dropped. Right. And I think everyone knows about the fact that I saw a gif of Vriska from Act 7 and I was like “shit that’s hot” and so I was like “well maybe I should give this Homestuck thing a try” and maybe it would be like, funny to read the whole thing of Homestuck and never talk about it again. So like, about a day or so after Act 7 dropped and I was like “What is this anime?” I was just like okay, I’m gonna read Homestuck and I’m gonna show everyone that you don’t have to read 20 hours of Homestuck every day to finish Homestuck. Right so, I spent like 5 days, I finished in it about 5 days, and I’m like “ah, I’m in it for the long haul now”. And here I am! So it was a mixture of me being like “Wow Vriska’s really hot” and then it was also like “I need to prove I can like, read fast, I guess”. I have some regrets, but I don’t think Homestuck’s one of them.

Dani: I don’t think Homestuck is one of my regrets either. ‘Cause every time I try to get out of it I just get sucked back into it. Like, this is so stupid.

Hexa: It was like, it was like, really weird, before then like I was really into Anime and stuff like that and ever since I’ve gotten into Homestuck I just have not touched anime at all.

Dani: Good!

Hexa: Which is, Homestuck’s the only anime for me!

Dani: No, I really tried to get out of Homestuck, like I really tried. In 2015 I got into Marvel a lot, like, I was super into Marvel. And then I got dragged right back into Homestuck!

Hexa: Yep, it just catches you in its very, very sad, painted-gray arms, and just holds you forever.

Dani: And then in 2017 I got into Overwatch, I’m still into Overwatch, but Homestuck has my heart ‘cause I made an entire side account, because I do not wanna be bothered by like, regular mutuals, but Homestuck content? So I’m just like, on to my side account. Which is Homestuck. So, anyways, next topic.

Hexa: Well normally we have a “this week in Homestuck” section, but nothing happened in Homestuck this week. Considering Friendsims arrival. RIP Friendsims.

Dani: Y’all were just arguing a lot. That’s what happened this week.

Hexa: We like you a lot every week I think that’s just how it is. So that’s it! Also, before we get into the actual meat part of this episode which is like the racism discussion. To all the enraged white people who didn’t want this episode to happen: here it is! Cool, let’s go.

Dani: Here’s to all the people who were in my mentions the entire week. I saw y’all. I saw y’all with my two black-ass eyes. I was watching y’all. And I didn’t block any of you guys ‘cause I didn’t care. But, I saw y’all. Don’t forget I’m always watchin’.

Hexa: I blocked like one person.

Dani: I don’t care that much. Y’all can’t fight me IRL so what’s the point? Anyways, next topic.

Hexa: Okay, so I think before we can get into Homestuck itself we have to talk a little bit about Hussie’s unfortunate history with racism and anti-blackness, and I don’t think we need to talk about it extensively, but—you look at his Team Special Olympics comics which ran from I think 2003 to 2008… they’re not good. That’s what I’m gonna say about that. They’re bad.

Dani: They are really bad.

Hexa: They are just like extremely bad to look at. If you haven’t seen them, they are just like extremely racist comic strips that Andrew Hussie did, specifically about black people. They’re just not great. Those were active until he took them down at some point. And, I think it’s important to say that he did say something about like, he has said “oh wow yeah I look at my old stuff and it’s just not funny” and so I guess that in a way that is him acknowledging that his past stuff is like, he used to be a racist edgelord. Whether he is now is up for debate, but I don’t think he’s as bad now.

Dani: I definitely don’t think he’s as bad now. I don’t think we would allow him to be as bad now.

Hexa: I don’t think his friends would allow him to be as bad now, from what I’ve heard. Not holding him accountable for those. But, for all the people who get angry about us quote unquote “digging up really old receipts”, he was grown-ass adult when he made those comic strips. He was at least 24 or 25 or something when he made those. So, take that as you will. Everyone has the potential to get better. Homestuck is a story about growth. Especially Andrew Hussie’s.

Dani: [laughs]

Hexa: As we go from the end of those comics and his whole deal there, we have to get into what’s in actual canon Homestuck. I suppose the most obvious thing was the “Caucasian Joke”, the “Peachy Joke”, you know. The whole Trickster Arc, which happened in—well, I don’t feel qualified to talk about it because I wasn’t actually, like, there when all that stuff went down. And I know oD and Kate talked about it in the Trickster episode which was last week. Two weeks ago?

Dani: I think it was two weeks ago.

Hexa: Something like that, yeah. I think they covered some of it. My personal stance is I don’t think it’s like, you know… Hussie did say “Oh yeah, I did change the joke because people have been using it to harass fans of color” and stuff like that, which I think is good, I just don’t understand how you can like, make a joke like that and look at it like “oh yeah definitely no one’s gonna take this the wrong way”, kind of thing. I just don’t think it was handled that well, but it’s not something I hold against the comic, specifically.

Dani: Umm, personally I just think it’s stupid. I don’t like it. The Trickster Arc is just not good writing. I know I’m not the only one who agrees with that, I just feel like the entire arc was supposed to be like “Oh Homestuck is so random XD XD”, but, like, even if it is “random XD XD” it still has a lot of, like, girth in that particular segment. Like you literally had Roxy kiss Dirk, and that’s like super uncomfortable. That’s something that like a lot of people still hold against Roxy, even though, you know, she’s a fictional character but that’s beside the point.

Hexa: Yeah. Like it’s a lot, you know.

Dani: Yeah it is a lot. Even if it was just an obscene joke. That one joke, or, yeah, that one Caucasian joke, it spun out of control because of how important that segment of the comic was. I don’t know.

Hexa: Yeah. Umm, yeah. But I suppose if we’re talking about actual race and stuff like that in Homestuck. Early, uhh, we do have to talk about Hussie’s blanket statement “the kids are all aracial” which I did talk about on Twitter a bit. But I was wondering if you had any thoughts.

Dani: I think I made my stances on “aracial” pretty clear. I just feel like he did not do it properly. You just like, if you’re going to say like your kids have no race but you continue to make white jokes, Caucasian jokes, and just officiate fanart, like a lot of fanart in the early Homestuck days was of the kids being all white. Not like white color, not #FFFFF, Caucasian pink skin.

Hexa: Like… white.

Dani: Like white people. I think that’s just very contradictory, it’s kind of a slap in the face, especially when you say these kids have no race, but all the official fanart is art, is, oh. — Can I speak English please? — all the official fanart is white and then white jokes, and then white-colored Tricksters. What’s the point?

Hexa: Yeah. And I think like, I do think it’s, a lot of people are like “if you were in Homestuck what would you do?” and it’s not really… the araciality is one thing, but it’s just the fact that like he had the chance to make aracial characters, and like the first time with the kids he failed because he made… I don’t know if it was a subconscious thing or if he just didn’t think it was that big a deal, but he made some jokes and some references to pale skin or whatever whatever. And that just didn’t work, like you can’t say they’re aracial and the like “yeah they have white skin”. Or like that bit where he says “oh yeah they’re aracial, but they definitely can’t be black.” That’s bad! That’s just a really bad look.

Dani: That’s just the worst thing to say. Even if it is a joke that’s not funny. Jokes are supposed to be funny, not hurtful.

Hexa: And then like, even the second time he successfully made aracial characters by making the trolls, they still had like “troll racism” so, it’s not the most convincing. But, I still stand by the fact that like, if I was in control of Homestuck, I would keep them aracial. I don’t want to see Andrew Hussie write characters of color, I don’t think that’s—

Dani: Oh, absolutely not! I don’t want to see any men—did I say any men? Any white men, write characters of color, because y’all can’t do it! I’m sorry, but I just have to say it. There’s proof in pretty much of every form of media. In Mafia 3 a black man who’s a syndicate is over there killing a bunch of people… it’s super obvious when black characters are written by white men, it’s just like, you guys don’t know how to write people of color because you’ve just never lived that experience. If Homestuck is written by a person of color: yes! Please, go for it! Write people of color characters. White men just don’t know.

Hexa: Yeah. It’s like, and I guess, if you’re white you wouldn’t expect it, but there are some things that it’s just like: you really just don’t know. I think you have to just accept that and do proper research or actually like talk to, you know, people of color, if you’re going to write people of color then you have to do your research, and don’t write our stories for us, you know?

Dani: Don’t go around like “this black character has black hair, and black skin, and black eyes, and this and that. And chews watermelon and fried chicken!” ‘cause that’s exactly what y’all sound like.

Hexa: Oh my god, yeah.

Dani: It’s so bad.

Hexa: Well yeah, I just feel like that’s like, it, for writing race into characters. You have to think about it for a sec. I guess which means we come to black-coding, or coding of certain characters within the comic. Which I think is your ballpark, Dani, I know that you wrote some about Damara and Her Imperious Condescension. I was wondering if you wanted to elaborate a bit.

Dani: Umm yeah, a thread. It’s called racism… And the thing about Homestuck that I can’t remember—The Racism in Homestuck, the Fandom and its Creator Itself! That’s what it’s called. Look that up on Twitter dot Com. I basically made a thread about HIC, Meenah—Meenah’s not as bad, but we can still talk about her, Damara. How do you say it Dah-mer-uh, Dam-er-uh? I always say it Dah-mer-uh. I made one about Tavros, and I that’s—oh and the Makaras, and there’s like—

Hexa: Which I know you got a bit of flak for, but we’ll talk about that.

Dani: Everyone was in my mentions about the Makaras, but you know what… that’s whatever.

Hexa: It’s obviously kind of… I mean Her Imperious Condescension uses African-American Vernacular English, and there’s something to be said for like, the big bad alien lady, who’s literally like… the like… she, okay, she is the person behind all of the troll shit that’s going on. Like, it’s her. So it’s just kind of, bad! It’s just bad, there’s obviously this kind of long running history of the vilification of non-white people, in basically everything, and I gotta say it’s not the best look for her to be, you know, portrayed how she is.

Dani: No like, for sure, I just hate that, as black femme—or you know what let’s just say I’m a woman, let’s just put that out there. Fuck being enby for now. As a black woman I think it’s very gross, her use African American Vernacular English, to her rabid temper, to the point that she only cares about wealth and money. Playing off the fact that black people are gold diggers [transcriptor’s note, I do not believe Dani intended to state that “black people are gold diggers” is a fact, rather it is a common stereotype.]. She’s just a super racist stereotype. Like have you looked at her? She’s literally woman with a lot of hair, she has a trident, she has a bunch of rage, which fills into the stereotype that black women are really angry.

Hexa: It’s just like, it’s all there isn’t it?

Dani: There’s a scene of her, I think this is in intermission, in the end of Act 6, where’s she’s smoking cigars and just surrounded by jewels. Implying she’s a pimp, it’s also implying she’s a gold digger. I don’t know what he’s trying to go for, either way it’s super bad, it’s super gross. I don’t like the way people write her, the way people draw her. So she wanted shoes and stuff, it’s always a black woman. We all know it’s a black woman, but people don’t understand it’s a bad example of a black woman.

Hexa: And I guess we can talk a bit about Damara as well. Who’s just, I mean…

Dani: It’s so gross. It’s so gross.

Hexa: Just look at her translated text. It’s extremely bad. It’s just, I know it’s supposed to be playing on the whole “internet tropes” or whatever whatever. It’s just not good writing, and it’s not pleasant either. When I first read Homestuck as like, you know, a 14-year-old closeted Chinese kid, I was looking at this like, is this a good thing? Is this something people like? Is this good criticism? She’s just, she fulfills all these tropes. It’s everywhere, in what she wears and what she speaks, in the fact that she has poorly google-translated lines, and like, everything. It’s bad. I was thinking about the handmaid and how like, Doc Scratch… she’s like the servant to Doc Scratch. She’s treated so so badly in the comic. I know it’s like, it’s saying something, it just feels really nasty to see a character who’s obviously supposed to be you know, Japanese schoolgirl or whatever trope, but it’s just really really not good. I don’t think it really adds much, other to make the part inside of me that hates Doc Scratch just shrivel and like, I just can’t deal with this, you know?

Dani: No, you’re valid. I just feel like Hussie was like, I know people were saying like “Hussie was just playing on a joke” he was just pointing out a stereotype. It’s not his stereotype to point out. Hussie’s not a Japanese man or a Japanese woman, you can’t reclaim jokes or stereotypes that are not from your own.

Hexa: And I don’t really consider myself like a galaxy brain person, and I know sometimes subtext goes over my head, but if I’m reading something and it’s just right there and it just feels wrong like that. That’s just not gonna fly, you know? But enough about those guys, I guess. I guess we can go into some of the more kind of subtle stuff. I know that PsychicFang on twitter asked about this a little bit—in Homestuck there’s this very black and white dichotomy. And it’s very early on when we’re learning about like the rules of Skaia and the aims of Sburb. One of the main goals is to get the white side, the white queen, to defeat the black king. Is it the black king? I always forget, I’m very forgetful.

Dani: You know what, you’re asking someone who hasn’t read Homestuck in like 5 years?

Hexa: [laughs] Yeah. But the whole thing is like “oh yeah, Prospit always loses, and your goal is to get Prospit to win”. And it’s not a black vs white thing in a racial sense, but it’s just another example of like, the way that internalized racisms and the “black = bad, white = good” dichotomy feeds into Homestuck. It’s… it’s colorism. It’s colorism in a way that I don’t think was intentional, but it’s there.

Dani: Yeah, I feel like there’s accidental colorism a lot in Homestuck.

Hexa: Oh yeah.

Dani: Personally, I don’t think Hussie knew what colorism was back then. So, I think that may be something that we’re looking at now that we see as problematic that he had no idea about back then. It is like, a thing. “Black is bad white is good”.

Hexa: Yeah. I’m gonna read PsychicFang’s whole question because it raises a few good points. “What’s your opinion on colorism in the comic itself, like Her Imperious Condescension” who we already talked about, “and the Dersites being the big bads. Grimbark and Grimdark having blank characters turn dark to show evil, and how these attitudes show in the white fandom as well.” I don’t really think about Grimdark that much. I do think it is… something, for sure. I just think it’s another example of just feeding into that kind of… it’s like, the colorism that no one really thought about, but we read back into it, “well it’s there” and it’s unfortunate, but it’s not like the worst of transgressions, it’s just a shame, really.

Dani: Yeah, I don’t know. White fandom, I just try not to think about it too much, because when I think about the white part of fandom, I get headaches. Like how you guys stress me out, and gave me the worst headache I’ve had in months, this week.

Hexa: Oh my god, yeah.

Dani: But I wouldn’t be surprised if they took it badly, I know the ways some of y’all draw certain things. This is pretty evident, but…

Hexa: And I think Homestuck? The thing about Homestuck is that it’s like really good about everything else. Because like, the big bad is like this representation of toxic masculinity and homophobia and like, you know,I mean- Her Imperious Condescension is written badly, but she’s supposed to be a manifestation of capitalism. Like, Betty Crocker’s bad, it’s capitalism. They’re like, kind of trying to defeat that, right? So, it’s just kind of a shame the one thing they fore short on is the race thing, when, everything’s already been talked about a bit but, again, I guess that’s not really Andrew’s to talk about.

Dani: There’s just certain things you just can’t, can’t make light about if you’ve never experienced it. A lot of people just don’t understand. But yeah…

Hexa: I guess the last few things I wanted to talk about in canon Homestuck that I wanted to talk about is uh… Zebruh, who is a Hiveswap Friendsim character, who just kind of sucks. I don’t have a good understanding of his character, but from what I know basically he just, he like kind of- fetishizes lowbloods in a really nasty way, which is just not nice. And then… I’m gonna say it: Eridan.

Dani: [laughs] Do Amporas deserve rights? Let’s discuss.

Hexa: Oh my god! I just, I’ve been like, arguing with myself, “Am I gonna do the first Eridan discourse of this podcast?” and I think the answer has to be yes, because, Eridan is written as a villain. There’s a quote from Andrew Hussie somewhere, from his Formspring. He manifests as like, he’s very clearly supposed to reflect this kind of genocidal figure. He’s supposed to be read as villainous. Even like, even though he’s a thirteen year old boy, I mean like, genocide’s not really a thirteen year old boy thing to do, like that’s not a normal thing to do. The fact remains that he wanted to kill all lowbloods, with no hint of irony, or “oh yeah he’s just a mislead, misunderstood, mentally ill boy”. It’s very… not good. As far as I’m concerned.

Dani: Honestly, what bugged me more about Eridan, is that people painted Gamzee as the one who was this genocidal madman, when it was actually Eridan the entire time. I’m not sure why we just forgot it was Eridan, but we did.

Hexa: Well I have a theory that’s it’s ‘cause he’s got like a harry potter aesthetic going on, so he’s like the hipster white boy, and that’s why people like him. And it’s like, mmm, can you please read Homestuck again. And like, the part where he you know, murders his friends and talks about wanting to kill all lowbloods. Because, it’s like, you know…

Dani: You know…

Hexa: It’s kind of hard to get past. And it’s why I don’t really­— I am very vocal on the social medias about my Eridan opinions, but they can be summarized as: I don’t like genocidal characters, and I don’t really wanna talk about them, you know? They make me uncomfortable, and if you support them… I’m just not gonna talk to you, if that’s chill.

Dani: [laughs]

Hexa: But it’s… yeah. Oh actually, that kind of leads us into the Hemospectrum, which I totally— I actually kind of forgot about which is a bit weird, but that is a big thing.

Dani: The what? Is that the colorism shit?

Hexa: No, no, I wanted to talk about the Hemospectrum and like how it’s an allegory for like…

Dani: Oh the lowbloods and the high—

Hexa: Yeah.

Dani: Oh man the number of times I’ve explained what troll racism was to people this week.

Hexa: Oh my god.

Dani: I honestly think that’s just a very—it’s a castout. Sorry, castout? It’s a Caste system. And caste systems don’t always have to be racism, but in this case? It does! There’s a lot of opinions about how, lowbloods are like, not supposed to be people of color, and highbloods are supposed to be white people. And it’s just this whole “this and that” and “oh you’re reading too deep into it because Homestuck is not that serious” and also people saying “Oh I think this is how this is how it affects me”, and people speaking for other people, and it’s just a bunch of bs! I feel like you guys care more about this blood caste system than actual racism. And I’ve made my opinion of this very clear how you guys will have discourse about lowbloods vs highbloods every other week, but when someone brings up racism, you just go dead quiet or you tell them to shut up.

Hexa: Oh my god, yeah. It’s like, just, like, I was originally planning to start the episode by being like “Racism… I wonder how many white people just stopped listening?” but it’s really like that! Isn’t it? As soon as you bring it up, it’s really just— I know it can be hard to hear, but if you’re hearing us talk about racism stuff and you’re like “oh I don’t really wanna hear this”, you’re the exact person we need to be hammering this shit into, because it’s important.

Dani: And yeah, no, when we brought it up in the Discord chat and literally the same day got a message of “umm I think we’re tired of having race conversation after nine years” and I was just like “who’s tired?” ‘cause I’m not. I’m never tired. Are you tired? Would you like a blanket and a pillow and a bed to sleep on ‘cause I ain’t tired. I just feel like people need to get over themselves.

Hexa: Which brings us to the juicy part, which is: the fandom! Because the fandom has a lot of shit going on, I think.

Dani: Oh my god the Homestuck fandom is almost as bad as the Hamilton fandom, but you don’t deal with things like, severely less racism. It’s just that at the same time, it’s like, we can never win!

Hexa: Yeah, and, I will say that I actually—Homestuck fandom did actually kind of treat me quite well. It really introduced me to the concept of creating your own versions of the characters. Like, the fact that they’re aracial, regardless of how well that was handled, the fact they were stated to be aracial meant that like, for the first time, I could have characters and have them be like me. Which is like, big wow! And it’s also, I do think Homestuck fandom is like, 100% better than a lot of fandoms out there. Which is saying something.

Dani: Yeah, that’s something I was going to say. No, I have to agree with you on that. I totally feel like Homestuck has been way more accepting in the past—I know you got into Homestuck pretty late—

Hexa: 2016, yeah.

Dani: For sure, you missed out on potstuck discourse. Which is, to tell anyone who didn’t know, potstuck was a Tumblr blog in 2015 I think, I don’t know where the artist is now ‘cause they were really good at art, if you’re listening, please know I appreciate you because you introduced me to a lot of super cool concepts and things I like didn’t know about. But umm, it was basically a Tumblr blog around 2016, 2015. They were just introducing a bunch of like “hey, this character in Homestuck could be a person of color” and they had a bunch of these really cool headcanons like hijabi Kanaya, and Jewish Jade, all these really cool headcanons that like pretty much opened the doors to all these different headcanons. People weren’t afraid to post their art of their black Jade and their Filipino John, like, people weren’t afraid anymore because this one blog pretty much opened the doors on Tumblr. And I think that’s really important because it made a lot of people more open to express themselves with their art, and like all these people of color, and made people more accepting even though their art didn’t get as many reblogs because that’s something for a different topic. I just think that Homestuck is really cool in that aspect, like, there’s a lot of characters you can’t just go around saying “this character, who is white, is actually a person of color”. It would not allow that.

Hexa: Yeah, that’s like the one benefit of Andrew copping out and being like “well they’re just aracial” that I quite appreciate. Because it did kind of… it doesn’t minimize conflict but it does reduce it, sort of, because you can’t have white people being like “actually they’re all white, and I don’t know why you’re race-baiting…” like, no! You making them white is still a headcanon! And I feel so powerful when I say that. Umm, but yeah, I definitely do think that in the past 2 or 3 years I’ve been in this fandom, the fan content, and like diversity in fan content has still, gotten better. I can’t tell if that’s because I like, ended up surrounding myself with good people or not. Definitely it’s improved from like, like when you’ve… I’ve looked at you know, 2012 archives of Homestuck art and it’s like “Oh yes, I am blinded by all this whiteness”. But even my own art actually, I find improved, it benefitted a lot like, I kind of… I used to be an anime fanartist right? Like anime girls are all like you know, like they’re Japanese, but they’re like pale big eyed skinny like girls, and like, there’s not… anime doesn’t have any brown people, it doesn’t have any black people, whatever, whatever. When I joined this fandom I was like, there’s so much possibility and I actually had to learn how to draw like, people of color and learn ethnotypic expression properly. Which, I really really appreciate, and it definitely benefitted me so much.

Dani: And honestly, I think that brings us to our next topic, Homestuck art. I mean, we already talked about Homestuck art, but let’s actually talk about Homestuck art. Umm, I have gone through a lot this week. Homestuck artists are so important and I love all my artist mutuals and all my artist followers. I appreciate you guys so much because art is hard. I do art myself, Hexa does art, I’m pretty sure everyone does art at this point. It’s fun, I love art, it’s great. But what I don’t like is when people draw people of color with these white features.

Hexa: Oh, yeah, it’s like the pointy nose but then they just like turn down the skin color like 2 shades. That’s not how you do it.

Dani: Yeah, and it’s so gross, like. Google is free!

Hexa: Just learn how to draw non-white people.

Dani: I literally said this, if you don’t want to take the time out of your day to learn how to draw people of color, and learn how to draw people of color, you can’t call yourself an artist, and that’s just how it is.

Hexa: Honestly.

Dani: And a lot of people were mad at me about it! I was just like, “I’m not wrong”! I literally said what I said.

Hexa: Right and it’s like, I get it, art is hard. But everything about art is hard. You can’t use that as an excuse to just draw the same white girl five thousand times over. It’s boring, and it takes away from your art, and your experience, generally.

Dani: Yeah, no offense. No one wants to see all that. Expand your horizons. People of color are super fun to draw. And for people who do draw people of color with these white features? That ain’t it chief. It really ain’t it. I literally had to make an entire—it’s so tiring to see, especially when it’s like of your race. You’re like “I don’t look like that!” I’m not saying that everyone from the same race looks the same, but when it’s a constant thing… What am I supposed to do when people think I look like this because all these white artists keep drawing me like this.

Hexa: yeah, actually, I kind of… Speaking of portraying all of the kids in art especially, I just wanted to bring up this one audience question, which is from LoveshroomSS on Twitter, which is Linus, and I don’t know how to pronounce your @, but that’s how it is, who said: “It’s popular for fandom to depict the Derse kids with lighter skin and for the Prospit kids to have darker skin, and I was wondering what y’all think the reasoning is behind that.” Which is like, a lot. It is something that I’ve noticed, I don’t know if you’ve noticed it as well.

Dani: Hold on I need to know, who’s a Derse kid again? I’m so tired.

Hexa: It’s like, when you see fanart and it’s like you know Dave and Rose as pasty white characters, and you have John and Jade as like… POCs or whatever. But it’s like, I think there is a very clear dichotomy that’s drawn sometimes.

Dani: Yeah I never… you know what, honestly I think it has something to do with people drawing Dave and Rose as white people, like that’s just a very common headcanon.

Hexa: Yeah it’s like, why is that a common thing?

Dani: I don’t know why it’s common, like come up with some different theories y’all are boring!

Hexa: Yeah. I have some theories about it. I used to do this discourse a very long time ago, but I think it still kind of applies, and my thesis is that: the Derse kids are more popular than the Prospit kids. That’s just a fact, right? I’ve seen like polls and stuff, everyone loves Dave and Rose more than John and Jade, like, in general. Okay.

Dani: I’m gonna say, I think that people like the Striders more than they like Rose.

Hexa: Pardon?

Dani: I think it’s just a Strider thing, people love Striders.

Hexa: Well, yeah. But, like—

Dani: I don’t think the Lalondes have much love.

Hexa: People love the Derse kids, is kind of my thing. The Striders are big part of that. But I think people kind of subconsciously or not subconsciously like to project their conventionally attractive fantasies onto the character they like. That’s part of why I think that’s the dichotomy there is so clear. Also, just like people being like “oh yeah I guess I should include people of color headcanons so I guess John and Jade can be like… brown or something”. I think that’s a thing that actually does happen. I have seen it because I have been told straight to my face after posting fanart of my kid lineup or something someone has told me straight to my face “Oh yeah I can’t imagine the Derse kids as anything but paler than the moon, but I’m all for people of color” —literally POC—“Prospit kids”. And I’m like… okay. I don’t care.

Dani: Exactly, like why do you think we care? Keep your opinions to yourself.

Hexa: When I say that it feels like a reach, but I really don’t think that’s too much of a reach when you consider a few other things.

Dani: No, you’re perfectly valid!

Hexa: On this topic I want to talk about the way people draw Jade, because there’s another big thing here which is like, Jade Harley being the token brown person or whatever. Or like, being the only one who’s portrayed as being non-white or like, not pale. It’s kind of weird because John and Jade are literally siblings by blood. There’s that. There’s also that, she’s the one character who’s associated with like… she gets fused with her dog, basically. I don’t really know how to breach this, but it’s not a good look for your only person of character, the only character you have being portrayed as nonwhite, being the one character who has associations with like animalistic imagery, and stuff like that. Especially considering all of that juicy history there! You kind of get what I mean?

Dani: Yeah, I get you.

Hexa: I’ve seen like in fancontent of Jade, and it’s, when I see like big buff hairy brown Jade against like, skinny white perfect Dave and Rose. What are you guys doing? Is that how you see people of color? It kind of blows my mind a little bit. Like do you see the problem here?

Dani: I just feel like people… my thing about Jade is that if I see a white Jade, I’m callin’ the police! Point blank period. Jade is an islander, she’s obviously not gonna be pale.

Hexa: I’ve had people be like “ah yeah, obviously Jade isn’t white because she lives on an island”, but I don’t think that holds up that well because she was shipped off there. Grandpa Harley moved there from mainland US or something, if I remember correctly. Like, Jade Harley is not white, actually none of the kids are white!

Dani: She is not white, no one is Homestuck is white. Period!

Hexa: No one in Homestuck is white, but especially not Jade Harley. I just, it’s very frustrating to me when people are like “oh yeah, these are my headcanons. These are my logic driven headcanons, whatever, whatever. There’s no way all of them are gonna be people of color. It’s unrealistic that there are no white people”. It’s like, well, I mean.

Dani: I don’t think white people are gonna survive the apocalypse, I’m just putting that out there.

Hexa: [laughs] Oh my god.

Dani: It’s just like, I understand what you’re saying. It makes me uncomfortable when you see these hairless Striders, and then you see Jade who is very hairy, has a lot of hair, and she’s also brown, which is a very bad, umm… A lot of it is, I guess racism. I know a lot of brown people who do have body hair, but when I see art of Jade that’s all I see. Body hair, a lot of hair, unkempt hair. And people think she’s like, dirty, which is also not a bad [unintelligible]. But that’s beside the point. I just feel like there’s just like… people just don’t understand what they’re doing when they draw certain things, and the racist implications of it. I feel like this is a conversation that people need to be having on timelines and stop hiding from it. And realize like “hey this is not a good stereotype and I should watch how I draw this character, especially with the racist implications. I might not know, but someone else might see it differently.” And another thing, if someone says they have a problem with your art, you’re not inclined to listen to them but it’s important to realize what they’re saying and taking it into account, of why they’re being offended by your art. A big problem is with a lot of these people is when someone says something about your art, you don’t listen because you always think their opinion is bad, but if they’re saying like “this is racist”, I think you should listen to them!

Hexa: Yeah, it’s like, if someone says “hey this doesn’t seem great. You probably shouldn’t do that because it has some racist implications”, like you should probably think of what you’re saying before you just dismiss them and call them a hater or whatever. Like, we have good intentions. We want you to get better, I appreciate it when people draw— have like, headcanons where the kids are not white because God knows I’ve craved for that for so long, but, you have to do it well and it’s a bad look when it’s like “Well, here’s my one token brown character, it’s Jade and also she has lots of hair, and compared to all the other characters and it just looks really bad”, just— just think about it, you know?

Dani: I hate when people draw Jade brown but they draw Jake... white!

Hexa: Oh my God, it’s like, what are you guys on?

Dani: What are you doing? Is this what we’re doing?

Hexa: I have a tiny bit, a very very small bit of personal beef with— I’ve seen a lot of [sigh] dirkjake fanart of like— skinny white twink Dirk and like— big buff manly Jake being like— It’s so bad! You guys need to think about that for a hot minute maybe. Because it’s like, I know you’re not trying to be racist but it’s like, think about it, just use your brain.

Dani: And twink Striders always made me uncomfy like—

Hexa: Oh my God yeah, when I see— Ok, I’m gonna come out and say it: white Dave Strider is my least favorite character in Homestuck. If Dave Strider was a white boy I would just hate him so much and I know people are gonna give me flak for this but it’s true. It’s ‘cause he’s an asshole. [laughs] And if you forget that about Dave is just—

Dani: Honestly white Dave reminds me of all those hip-hop bands who argue “Eminem is the best rapper alive”, like that’s exactly what I think of when y’all say white Dave.

Hexa: Ugh. That’s just like, my gripe about art in general, but I would— thank you so much to all of the incredible fanartists out there who are just like: “Gay rights!” and then they draw all of the kids as non-white because you guys are my saviors. And like, I think we have to actively encourage people to draw like— to portray these characters as non-white. Um, because—

Dani: I think people are scared, not gonna lie.

Hexa: Yeah, people ARE scared and I think people are kind of scared about like: “I don’t want to draw them wrong or like in a way that’s kind of offensive or accidentally put aspects of caricature in there”, which I understand. Just: base them off real people and use your brain.

Dani: Yeah, that’s just it. Use a reference. Use a reference. Wait, that was once. Use a reference. That was two. Use a reference. That was three. Use a reference. That was four. Use a goddamn reference. That was five. It’s good, it’s so free, man. Like it’s so free. It is the freest thing out here. And I literally had to make a thread about black hairstyles that could easily be [unintelligible 54:47] but that’s besides the point.

Hexa: Excellent thread by the way.

Dani: Thank you, I tried very hard.

Hexa: If you’re looking into— thinking about expanding your headcanons and you are interested, go look at that thread of black hairstyles because they’re very good, very useful.

Dani: No, and like I don’t know how to say it: using a reference won’t kill you, using a reference is how you get better at art and people just don’t seem to understand that!

Hexa: Honestly. But yeah, I always try and make a conscious effort to like— I retweet fanart of the kids as non-white almost solely. This might seem mean but I just don’t interact with fanart of be kids as white because that’s just not my jam. And I want to say to people like, your headcanons are good and I appreciate what you’re doing when you’re portraying these guys as non-white, because we need this, you know? And it’s comforting.

Dani: And don’t think that your art is being unnoticed. Even if it doesn’t get the retweets it deserves, even if people aren’t liking or interacting with it your art is always appreciated. And that’s something a lot of people don’t understand. I know there’s a big difference between white Strider art and black Strider art. Even if the white Strider art gets 100 reblogs and the Black Strider art gets like 10, doesn’t mean your art is not worth it. Just keep drawing, just keep doing you because—

Hexa: You’re doing the Lord’s work.

Dani: You’re doing my work. Every time I find a picture of black Roxy I ascend, it’s heaven.

Hexa: Oh my God, yes. Actually, I kinda forgot to mention this before but just let me say one quick sentence: please stop with the weird nerdy Asian stereotype when you’re portraying the Prospit kids. It sucks. Caricatures of East Asian people have often been just like, you know: dark hair, slit eyes, with glasses and buckteeth and well—

Dani: Gross.

Hexa: But it’s kind of difficult because it’s like, I appreciate Asian representation because honestly, it does not happen a lot, ever. But when I see John being portrayed like that I’m like of two minds: ‘cause it’s like “yay, Asian representation” but it’s also like, it kind of feeds into the whole stereotype thing which I still can’t get over because it’s quite prevalent and it’s not pleasant to have your only representation being like that. Yeah, that’s just my two cents on people portraying Asian people. Also, there’s more Asian countries than Korean and Japanese people, just because you like anime doesn’t mean that your portrayal of a Japanese character is like— good. Does that make sense?

Dani: [laughs] It makes a lot of sense.

Hexa: No, I just see a lot of people having a lot of people having “Asian headcanons” of the kids and it’s just like East Asian or like solely Korean and Japanese, and I think a large part of it is because of the increase in popularity in Japanese anime and K-pop. And people kind of— there’s a very big— there’s this perception of what the “perfect Asian” is supposed to look like, and often it’s very much like: when you look at K-pop models, those guys set this weird beauty standard for Asian people, and it’s extremely weird and also: there are more places in Asia than just East Asian countries like China and Korea and Japan. God knows I need some Southeast Asian headcanons. Actually, the first time— I remember the first time I portrayed John as Malaysian and I actually said so, I think it was Sam? Shout out to Sam! Sam left a tag on my art that was just like overjoyed like “thank you for—“

Dani: What’s Sam?

Hexa: Sam Chang on Twitter who’s just like, a friend. They reblogged my art of Malaysian John and they were like: “thank you for the specificity because I never get that kind represation like, ever”. Did I just say represation? “Representation like, ever”. And it felt nice because I’m doing this for you guys and there are lots of places and lots of people who don’t get representation and I want— like, what I draw is for you guys, it just makes me happy that sometimes that reaches people. So, there’s that. I think that’s enough about art. I’m pretty sure we just waxed poetic for like 20 minutes about art in Homestuck, so maybe we should just talk a bit about cosplay before we get into our final audience questions.

Dani: Alright, cosplay, cosplay, cosplay. I’m a cosplayer. I’m using that term very loosely, I’m a “cosplayer”, with like, quotation marks. Um, basically cosplaying is really fun, cosplayers do art, cosplay takes a lot of time and effort, and confidence because cosplayers... y’all are some badasses, I’m just gonna put it out there.

Hexa: Honestly, yeah.

Dani: I just want Homestuck cosplayers to know, you guys are very appreciated, especially my cosplayers of color. It hasn’t been a lot recently, but I know back in 2016 there were some cosplayers of color who used to be harassed, like crazy.

Hexa: Yeah, I had a friend and she was Korean, and she literally just left the fandom back then because it just got really bad and it’s upsetting actually, to know that people would do that? Especially like— often times— we’ve talked about the more insidious racism that kinda goes under the radar most of the time, but that’s just an example of how overt it can be, and it’s— it’s bad.

Dani: Yeah, it’s so bad. Like people would just like— I remember I used to know this one Jane who was like— oh my god she was so pretty. She was so pretty, she was a black cosplayer, and I remember looking at her tags and people were just like “oh Jane’s not black, Jane’s white, you’re doing this wrong”. I’m just like: I wish y’all would get a hobby.

Hexa: Honestly.

Dani: And stop— just leave people alone. Just, you know? Get a job. Just, shut up.

Hexa: Yeah, for real.

Dani: And this happens all the time, and it’s not just in the Homestuck fandom, it’s in all fandoms, but we’re gonna talk about the Homestuck fandom. This is— we’re just gonna keep this short because we got to wrap this up but, if you’re a cosplayer, especially if you’re a cosplayer of color, I really appreciate you and Hexa does too!

Hexa: Yeah, even though I’m not a cosplayer, I guess.

Dani: Yeah. I haven’t seen much cosplay that’s as much as I would like to ‘cause it’s really [unintelligible] Whatever. You are beloved and we love you so much, and we appreciate the art that you’ve done, and the time you spent cosplaying, what have you, it’s hard to envision like— sure art is a good way to see ourselves as the characters but cosplay is just on a whole other level. And, thank you!

Hexa: Man, cosplayers are excellent, I just don’t interact with that community very much. Anyway, so, I guess we should just get into our final audience questions for this episode. And, shout-out to optimisticDuelist who basically wrote an essay, like a good 600 words worth of questions on Discord but, obviously we can’t read our all of that so I’m just gonna summarize the most pertinent bits, I think.

Dani: [unintelligible]

Hexa: [laughs] So, 1: Do you feel like Hussie’s history with racism hurts Homestuck significantly as a work fans can feel positively about or is it more like a point of awareness and example of Hussie’s growth as both an author and a person? Um, and, me personally? I do think it does leave a bitter taste in my mouth sometimes. I do think about like, his history and the way it’s manifested in the comic, I do think it is a shame, especially because Homestuck is really good, but it’s also really bad. So, it’s like, it kind of hurts? But honestly I love Homestuck too much and it gives me too much creative freedom for me to really like hold it against it a lot? And I do think Andrew Hussie has gotten better and he’s definitely done things to kind of rectify that and lots of the Friendsim team, are, like, people of color, etcetera. And— it’s a thing of the past, as far as canon Homestuck goes, like, literally, because Homestuck’s ended. So, when I think about it retrospectively, yes, it does hurt it but I don’t think it’s a significant thing? But I understand that there’s lots of people of color out there who see this and like, his history and all of that, and it does affect it a lot.

Dani: Yeah, I feel like Hussie can — and we just gonna end the pod honestly but — I feel like he can grow from his racist past if he acknowledges it, and obviously people have like said in the past — or people who currently work with him say: “Oh yeah, he acknowledges it” and people make fun of him. But Homestuck has brought a big acceptance [?? 1:05:35] to the world and has done a good job despite its racism and that’s something we can’t take away: Homestuck has— like people have met their best friends though Homestuck, people have gotten jobs, and people have met a community that they feel a part of, and even if Homestuck is bad, a lot of good things came from it.

Hexa: Did you want to talk about your conversation with Aysha?

Dani: Yeah!

Hexa: Kate said that basically that they respect Andrew as a creator and as a writer a lot and that he has moved past— he— basically— I’ll just read it: “I respect Andrew Hussie as a writer and creator a great deal. I think his story of moving past edginess and offensive humor to create a story full of empathy and authenticity is exactly the kind of message we need now. If you can’t look past the old stuff, though, I get it. I think walking the walk (reckoning with your past mistakes in-story, hiring a diverse team to work on the universe in future, disavowing people using your work to harass people of color) is more important than going point by point through your past work you’ve deleted. BUT the point here is we should be able to talk about it.” And then she kind of said something of her support for us which I appreciated, and then Aysha’s comment on Kate’s post was that: “Andrew has used his position to elevate a lot of marginalised creators” which in her opinion, is way more important than “Performative Wokeness” online, which I think is important, and I appreciate it a lot.

Dani: Yeah and I didn’t hear about that, because it was kinda confusing what she meant by that first part, and she explained! She was like “yeah, a lot of people who work for Andrew Hussie are queer and/or people of color” and I thought that was really cool, ‘cause that’s something that I didn’t know and something that a lot of people don’t know? So, obviously he’s— I don’t think Andrew Hussie is a racist guy. He’s made—

Hexa: Some mistakes!

Dani: Yeah, some mistakes.

Hexa: Plenty of mistakes.

Dani: Because if he was a racist guy he wouldn’t be actively hiring people of color.

Hexa: Yeah. Another question that a lot of people sent us was about our personal headcanons, like, racial headcanons for the kids or the trolls, including like, humanstuck headcanons.

Dani: Shit.

Hexa: I’m just gonna go, quick.

Dani: You go first, you go first.

Hexa: Ok! Alright.

Dani: No, you go first, ‘cause I have to open up all the trolls.

Hexa: Ok, well. I personally believe that it’s kind of weird and performative to have like, a whole line-up of all of the trolls, like all 40 characters, and have like, very specific racial headcanons for all of them ‘cause it’s like, have you ever met like a real POC? Like have you ever met like, a non-white person? To me, like, my headcanons for them are quite personal and I have this known but they’re all based ok people I know in real life or like, my actual friends so, apart from— well, I’ll just list them off: so, I headcanon Roxy as black, specifically Ethiopian Jewish; and Dirk as Kaifeng Jewish, so he’s Chinese; Jane as Malaysian Chinese; and Jake as Indian? And then the Beta kids are, you know, appropriately mixed. And then I only care about like four of the trolls or something, so like, my headcanons for them are: Kanaya is Pakistani—shout-out to Menem for being the best person ever, basically—; uh, insert that tweet that I made once where I was like: [Xtine voice] “vrisrezi are mean Asian hotties for sure”, because like— that’s something that Xtine actually said, I didn’t pretend to be Xtine and said that, but I made fanart of that, but yeah, I think I like Chinese or Malaysian Terezi and Indonesian Vriska or Chinese Vriska. Look, it’s a lot of me projecting. But yeah, [laughs] all of my headcanons are based off of my real-life actual friends, so it’s like, y’all can’t tell me that they’re not realistic, like, this is my friend group, like those are the people that I talk to in real life, you know? Those are my main headcanons, did I miss anyone? Oh, I also like Mexican Aradia.

Dani: Oh, that’s some good shit.

Hexa: Oh! And Filipino Karkat. Filipino Karkat is also excellent, yes.

Dani: Um, so there’s a point in life where I was just like: everyone in Homestuck’s black. Because there’s a lot of different blacks you can be.

Hexa: That’s, that’s excellent.

Dani: But then I was just like, you grow up a little. [laughs] Yeah, so, I guess I can start with John, I always saw John and Jane as Filipino. I forgot why? I think it was one of my Tumblr friends had really cool art and I was like: this is a very good headcanon. Rose and Roxy as Haitian and Jamaican, like— French, Haitian and Jamaican. The Striders as Afro-Puerto Rican and German. Jade and Jake as— well actually Jade as Polynesian and Jake as an aboriginal from Australia?

Hexa: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait! I forgot to mention I headcanon Ne-pee-ta or Ne-pe-tah however you say it, as indigenous Australian as well.

Dani: Ah, that’s a bad bitch right there.

Hexa: [laughs] Oh, and Eridan is white. Don’t @ me on that.

[laughs]

Dani: Everyone’s just like if you don’t have white Eridan or Cronus you’re just a terrible person. I’m just like, y’all, come on, they can be light skinned, and light skinned are also terrible people— I’m just kidding. Well, that’s the [unintelligible] You wouldn’t understand if you are not black.

Hexa: No, anti-blackness and colorism is a big issue not just in like, white people communities. And like, as a Chinese person I am allowed to say that, ok. There is a history and it’s bad.

Dani: Light-skinned black people are demons but that’s besides the point. For trolls, I don’t really have headcanons? I always say the Pixias- the Pixels- the Pix- whatever- however you say the—

Hexa: The Peixes.

Dani: The Peixes! Yeah, sure! However you say that, I always say that they’re black because saying that they’re not black is just very wrong! You’re wrong, and I’m allowed to not accept your opinion on that. Eridan, that’s a white man. White, white. I obviously— Tavros— people, ok. That was another [unintelligible] Someone said that Mexican Tavros is pretty racist ‘cause it’s stereotypical, but I always thought he was just like, Cuban, or like— but I know people will say that the correct thing to say is that he’s a Spaniard because his handle was bullriding which is a Spanish thing, and then like, he has a lot of Spanish qualities so I guess I’m gonna say Spanish! Sollux, I always bought Sollux was Indonesian.

Hexa: That’s an excellent headcanon. Love that.

Dani: That’s some good shit, right there. Karkat, I always thought Karkat was Mexican, that’s just ‘cause one of my friends was like “Mexican Karkat” and I just kinda— it was hammered into my brain and I was just like, this is a good headcanon. I’m gonna be real with you, Kanaya is definitely Pakistani. I love her, so much. Terezi? Alright, don’t hate me on this but I always see Terezi as Matt Murdock and Matt Murdock is a white man who’s a ginger. [laughs] So I’m gonna say Terezi is white, she’s a white ginger. But! But, she’s Matt Murdock, so she’s a good white, because Matt Murdock is the best white. Matt Murdock is also Daredevil, if you guys don’t know. [laughs]

Hexa: You’re valid.

Dani: I’m so valid. I love Matt Murdock so much, that’s my boyfriend right there. [laughs] Um, Vriska? Is... She’s Vriska. I never really thought of a race for her, I don’t know. I don’t know! She’s just Vriska. Vriska’s unra— she’s aracial— she’s the true definition of aracial. [laughs] The Makaras? White. I mean, not white. Excuse me, they’re black.

Hexa: Oh yeah, we forgot to talk about Gamzee. Well, it’s ok.

Dani: That’s ok. They’re not— they’re gross. I hate juggalos. [Hexa snorts] That’s just it. Yeah, that’s it, I don’t know, anyone else?

Hexa: No, I mean, if you can’t— if you’re trying to get them into your brain right now and you can’t think of anyone then you obviously don’t care about them to have a headcanon, so.

Dani: I really don’t. I just mean like, everyone’s black.

Hexa: I care about like, the kids and the girl trolls and that’s like, basically it.

Dani: You’re so valid.

Hexa: And that’s just how it is. So I think that’s basically our show. We did get some people sending us stories about their experiences of racism in the fandom, and a lot of it is recounts of people being weird with their Asian headcanons, the rarity of Southeast Asian headcanons—which like, get on that, guys! And also—

Dani: Also kin drama!

Hexa: Ugh, kin drama. Which I refuse to get into. I will not argue kin with you people, ok?

Dani: Y’all are not gonna find me involved in kin drama, that’s just it, but what I am gonna say is if you are harassing people of color I will gift you, and we will fight IRL. Don’t do that, that’s very rude. I’m not getting into specifics but I’m just saying don’t fight kins of color because you think that their race will not match the character.

Hexa: So yeah, I think that’s about it for our show. I will say, before I just like, completely end it like this, I will say the amount of people being like passive-aggressively, like mean-spirited or just outright just sending hate, people being condescending and just like, gross in the lead-up to this episode has actually been really disappointing because I genuinely thought the Homestuck fandom was better than this at this point but I guess that’s a testament to why we actually need to talk about this and why we had to talk about this because racism in the Homestuck fandom has not died, it’s still here and it like, still fucking sucks, so, like, thanks for listening, I guess.

[outro starts playing]

Dani: Thanks for listening!

Hexa: I know that’s kind of a bummer to say, but I do think- we’ve talked about some pretty depressing subjects on this podcast already, and I think this is just something that really needs to be addressed.

Dani: I just want to give a few thank-yous to a lot of my mutuals, I want to thank all of y’all, specially Zich, he’s really cool, I love to follow him, Peak Homestuck! No, but honestly, I just want to thank all my followers ‘cause I had the roughest week because of this. You guys gave me the worst stress headache I’ve had of all time. I just want to thank you guys for supporting me and [?? the stride? 1:17:38] and helping me fight racists and specially you, Sis, because Sis you were badass as fuck.

Hexa: Love Sis.

Dani: And just help me fight — ugh, she’s great! I love her! — help me fight racists. And I want to thank Kate! Because Kate is badass as fuck, and I want to thank them for giving us this opportunity to talk about this.

Hexa: Kate, thank you so much, honestly.

Dani: Yeah, give us an opportunity to talk about this because, this needs to be said! And I hope people change their mindsets and people realize what they’re doing is wrong and people just change! And even if you don’t actively say that you’re [?? 1:18:14] at least have your actions reflect that.

Hexa: Yeah, honestly thank you so much, to all of the people who have been really really supportive and good about this whole thing because it— I wasn’t even like, directly under fire, I wasn’t the one who made a super long thread on the racism in Homestuck and I still kind of— I did get some messages, and even just seeing it— it’s kind of heartbreaking and it’s tough but y’all make it worth it, I think, ‘cause I do value everyone a lot. So, thank you, a lot! The intro music was “SERVICE CAR” of the Hiveswap Friendsim album by James Roach, which y’all should really buy and listen to because it’s extremely good. It’s like, very, very good. So go support James. And the Outro music was “From the Sea, With Love” by @FRUITYTEEMUSIC on Twitter or smoothiefruitee on Bandcamp, an excellent track as well. And remember that— just remember that the Perfectly Generic Podcast is having a live-show on Sunday March 24th, in Burbank, California. Details can be found at perfectlygenericpodcast.com/live, which unfortunately I can’t go to because I’m an Aussie, ain’t that just how it is.

Dani: I can’t go there either, I’m broke.

Hexa: Follow the podcast at Twitter or Tumblr, @pgenpod and I guess I’ll promo myself now. I’m Hexa @HEXAES on Twitter or synodicatalyst on Tumblr, which is honestly is a mouthful and if you actually want to find my Tumblr just go via my Twitter, and— over to you Dani I guess.

Dani: I mean, I [unintelligible] myself, and I’m gonna do it again, ‘cause—

Hexa: Yeah, go for it.

Dani: Yeah, I’m @lalonders L-A-L-O-N-D-E-R-S (that’s how you spell it right?)

Hexa: Yes, I think so.

Dani: Cool! I know how to spell things! I’m @lalonders on Twitter, that’s my Homestuck Twitter, if you want my main account where I talk about spicy hot takes- just kidding, I just talk about videogame stuff now, [unintelligible], it’s @DaniLmao D-A-N-I-L-M-A-O, I don’t go on Tumblr because I don’t wanna do that anymore. But yeah, that’s all, y’all I don’t know how to say, my DMs are always open, I’m always open to questions.

Hexa: Mine too.

Dani: Are you open to questions Hexa?

Hexa: Yeah, mine are always open if you wanna fight me or if you just want clarification on something I’m always open to an amiable discussion. Please don’t be mean to me, I’m just an internet teen.

Dani: Yesss.

Hexa: That’s our show.

Dani: Please don’t me mean to Hexa. Y’all be mean to me, that’s ok. Be mean to me, don’t be mean to her.

[Outro]

Hexa: I don’t know how to end this. [laughs] I was worried about this episode being a bummer, here’s a joke I prepared earlier: Eridan, Eridan, it’s the joke. Ok, cool, glad we got that out of— glad we got that one out of the way. [laughs]

Dani: Do you guys want to hear another joke?

Hexa: Just, hit me.

Dani: Cronus. [laughs] Alright, we’re done, we’re done.

Hexa: Goodbye.