Episode 57: Piles & Piles of Grey People

Mkla and Kate chat about Homestuck’s cosplay community. Topics: Meta-cosplay. Costumes in story. Tips for graying up. Con planning. Creative motivation. A clown motel. #Secily2020.

Listen to this episode at https://perfectlygenericpodcast.com/updates/episodes/57

Transcript
KATE: The Perfectly Generic Podcast contains spoilers, occasional adult language, and Vriska. You've been warned. This podcast is listener-supported on Patreon, and I want to thank our Crockerier patrons, [names], for their generous support per episode. The music for this episode is by Goomy, and you can find a link to their Bandcamp in the description.

[Intro]

KATE: Alright, welcome to episode 57 of the Perfectly Generic Podcast. I'm here with mkla, one of the most legendary of Homestuck cosplayers, for an episode on cosplay. And the first thing that I like to ask someone when they come on the show for the first time is, how did you get here? What went wrong in your life that you're now on a podcast about Homestuck? How did Homestuck start for you?

MKLA: You know, good question. So hi, I'm mkla. I got into cosplay—well, I got into Homestuck in 2011, actually. So back in the day, it feels like, now.

KATE: Mhm. You're a first-wave Homestuck.

MKLA: I was first-wave Homestuck, but I've always just kind of been on the sidelines of Homestuck, really.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: It was recommended to me by my sister, for me to read Homestuck, and I got really into it. I read up to where it was updating in 2011, Doc Scratch arc. And then I just couldn't keep up with it for a really long time.

KATE: There's so much of it!

MKLA: Yeah, it updated so fast, I had a lot of stuff going on in my life. So I really enjoyed it. What really brought me into it was the music. It inspired me to make my own arrangements of the songs, which are buried somewhere on the internet. [Laughs] And I didn't really get back into Homestuck again until about 2016, like a couple months before it ended. And—

KATE: And what brought you back?

MKLA: What brought me back is, I heard Homestuck was ending. I actually got introduced to Andrew through my sister, and I was like oh yeah, I kind of remember that Homestuck existed. So. [Laughs]

KATE: The knowledge—'Cause I actually wandered away during the comic's run as well, despite starting reading in 2009. But knowing that there was some finality on offer was what brought me back. Just knowing, oh I can actually finish it now, instead of just catching up and feeling this unbearable "when is it going to update" feeling.

MKLA: Yeah! And you know, I'm really glad I got to read it again just start to finish. Actually, the day I caught up was the day Collide came out.

KATE: Mhm. Well that's quite the day then.

MKLA: I know, it was quite the day. I was still in college then. But yeah, it was really fun, and I really enjoyed reading it from start to finish. And what got me into cosplay was, later on down the road, I was really looking for a creative outlet, because all my friends are artists and writers, and I was kinda none of those things. And I remembered that cosplay existed. And I've always seen Homestuck cosplayers, just at every convention I've been to, they're always taking it over. And it looked really fun, and I thought that it would be an easy way to start. And I'm sure we'll talk about this more.

KATE: Mhm. I feel like that's most people's first exposure to Homestuck these days, has been just "who are all these grey people at cons?" [Laughs]

MKLA: [Laughs] Yeah. The grey people with candy corn horns. They're everywhere, yeah. I think that—yeah, I remember, I went to a con in like 2010, and it was my first con, and I was seeing Homestuck cosplayers there, and I was like "I dunno what anime that's from, but ok."

KATE: The best anime, obviously.

MKLA: Obviously, yeah.

KATE: One of only a few good animes.

MKLA: Yes.

KATE: There's three good anime. It's Revolutionary Girl Utena, Cowboy Bebop, and Ed, Edd, n Eddy.

MKLA: Yeah. And Homestuck.

KATE: Yeah, and Homestuck. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: And so, before we get to the main subject of this show, which is gonna be cosplay, I want to talk about this week in Homestuck. We got the teaser trailer for Pesterquest volume 4.

MKLA: [Softly] Woohoo!

KATE: It's Jade Harley! Everybody loves Jade.

MKLA: Yeah!

KATE: And it's funny because Jade's actually here! We're actually going to get a lot of uninterrupted Jade content, presumably. And she's not going—or maybe, I don't know, maybe she'll just fall asleep in the middle of the route and it's just sort of very unsatisfying. Who knows. [Laughs]

MKLA: Maybe. I actually hadn't played Pesterquest until last night, so I'm finally caught up on it.

KATE: Mhm. How did you find it?

MKLA: Oh, it was really cute. Like, I actually haven't caught up on it, 'cause I haven't played Dave yet, but I've heard it's really great.

KATE: Oh, I love Dave. Gayve Strider, Dick Rider.

MKLA: Yes. [Laughs] And what made me excited was that Rose got a new outfit. Just another instance of just another character people could cosplay, another outfit.

KATE: Yeah. Exactly, we've been starved. This was part—like, I love the Epilogues, but not having any imagery with them, is like...

MKLA: Yeah!

KATE: It's so hard, like, it's a lot harder to get people visually interested in drawing fanart or doing cosplay, and being able to see these characters again, and see new art of them, is really exciting for getting folks in.

MKLA: I know. And I am planning an epilogue cosplay!

KATE: Oooh!

MKLA: So that's going to be a challenge, with no visual to go off of.

KATE: Oh, exciting. Yeah. Um, let's see. We also—my good friends at the Vast Error team also released Snowbound Blood volume seven this week, you can check that out on itch.io. This week was a very serious and very amazing volume, that was a real gut punch—I was blown away by how Aden and pN wrote the characters at the heart of this. It's awesome to be surprised by a project you started, but I was really wowed by volume seven. And I think now is a great time to check out Snowbound Blood, 'cause it's getting pretty heavy. There's some pretty heavy shit going on.

I wanted to talk about, on this episode, because it's actually remarkable that we've gotten 57 episodes in without me talking about it, and it's because I've never been a fashion—I've never been accused of being fashionable before. It's cosplay, and—cosplay actually plays a role, like a lot of other forms of art, in Homestuck itself. Characters are really heavily defined by the way that they dress up in Homestuck. And someone like Vriska, so much of her arc is built on cosplay, and this idea of playing out and trying to fill another character's shoes, and trying to fill that role.

MKLA: Mhm. Yeah.

KATE: And so that's part of what makes seeing the popularity of Homestuck cosplay so interesting, it's just that it's so important to so many of the characters, right?

MKLA: Yeah. I remember at one point, I was like "I'm gonna cosplay every Vriska ever." I haven't done that yet. [Laughs] But I was like, I'm going to have to Vriska—a cosplay of Vriska cosplaying Mindfang.

KATE: Yeah. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah. And that's such an important part for her character, so.

KATE: It's a meta-cosplay.

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: And also one of the first things that characters do, that our main set of characters do when they first get into the game, is just make a bunch of silly outfits with the powers of alchemy.

MKLA: I know. I think I recall Jade making an Iron Man suit. [Laughs] Yeah.

KATE: Yeah. That's obviously a little bit problematic in copyright fashion, so she had to put it away for the intellectual property.

[Both laugh]

MKLA: Thank god.

KATE: You don't want—you don't want Disney on your ass, that is a fact.

MKLA: No. No.

KATE: God, imagine if Disney owned Homestuck.

MKLA: Oof.

KATE: Terrible.

MKLA: Let's not think about that.

KATE: Yeah, let's not—All of the gay has been removed.

[Both laugh]

KATE: And, zandraxofnebulon asked on Discord: "Thoughts on cosplay's connection to the art & human tradition of costume? Dressing up as things, including characters from story, culture, religion and mythology has been a part of humanity since the beginning of our species. How is cosplay one modern extension of that?" And that question put into words a lot of what I feel about cosplay, which is just—there's a part of where there's a sort of a live theater element to it.

MKLA: Yeah! Yeah.

KATE: That, y'know, really is culturally enriching. It brings the story off the page and into our physical spaces.

MKLA: Yeah. I think a lot of it is about just... escapism, and the chance to be someone that you're not.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: Y'know, when you get into costume, and cosplay, you get the chance to not really think about who you really are, and you get to just completely be someone else for a bit.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: And it's nice to be able to do that both visually, and you have the option to actually be in character if you wanted to. As long as you're not, like, harassing people, y'know. [Laughs] That's a whole other issue.

KATE: Right! Right. You know, you're still bound by common moral standards.

MKLA: Yes. Yeah.

KATE: But overall, it is very—I actually have never done cosplay, outside of dressing up for my live shows. Which is a big F.

MKLA: Yeah. You should give it a try.

KATE: Right, this is—2020 is gonna be the year I do a lot of cosplay, I promise.

MKLA: Yeah, well, I'd love at some point on this show to share really easy tips on how to get started, because I think—

KATE: Yeah, I wanted to actually get into that later, because we got a lot of awesome questions from our listeners, about simple tips and tricks for how to cosplay.

MKLA: Alright. Great.

KATE: But before we get to that, I want to talk about what makes Homestuck so appealing to cosplayers, right? Homestuck was this massive thing that takes over cons, and still, at every major con, there's just piles and piles of grey people.

MKLA: Yeah. Homestuck in 2019, it happens.

KATE: And to you, what do you think makes Homestuck stand out among media, in terms of being a mass fascination cosplay?

MKLA: Well, first of all, what other piece of media has like, literally hundreds of characters—

KATE: [Laughs] True.

MKLA: —that all have at least five outfits, if not more. Like, I mean, it's just such an open campus for you to really do what you want to do at any skill level.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: Yeah, Homestuck has so many characters, they can appeal to a cosplayer of any skill level. Like, all you really need is like, a t-shirt, and you're already on the way.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: And everything can really be up to your own interpretation, 'cause the characters are so stylistically simple. And really, like, even to do a kids cosplay, you don't even need a wig. So all you really need is the shirt, and you can just be like "hey, I can be this character for a bit," and it's fine.

KATE: So if your wig has been snatched, you can still do Homestuck cosplay.

MKLA: Yeah! If your wig has been snatched, yeah!

KATE: That was a real—I apologize for that one.

[Both laugh]

KATE: That one stunk.

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: But I also think part of it is how Homestuck, in addition to having so many characters with so many outfits, those outfits are so visually arresting, right? Like, you look at the colors in Homestuck, and like, whenever—if you pick out a color from a Homestuck panel in a color dropper you'll see, the vibrancy is 100, the saturation is 100.

MKLA: Oh yeah. Actually, when I made a Ms. Paint costume, I couldn't even find the right fabrics for the right colors that I wanted. 'Cause y'know, when you go to Joann's, or any fabric store, most of the fabrics are for quilting, and it's hard to get a big variety. So I actually ended up dyeing my own fabric to make her dress, because I was like, I need the right Homestuck colors here. And y'know, it turned out really cool, because—I don't know. The colors and the costumes are just—they're so fun.

KATE: Right, and it's also part of what makes the Homestuck cosplayers stand out so much, is these bright, vivid colors. And also like, there's so much—there's a visual consistency to all of it too, with the big symbols, and y'know the aspects and the god tier outfits, that let you make easy variations on characters.

MKLA: Oh yeah. Especially god tiers.

KATE: Yeah, exactly. Like, you can see massive amounts of cosplay of characters in outfits that never appeared in the comic, and I think that's awesome. It's people like, exploring AUs, but with a physical space.

MKLA: Yeah. And that kinda ties into how Homestuck characters can appeal to every skill level. Like, yeah, you can do a really easy kids cosplay, you can just do a shirt. Or, you could like, level up, and try a troll cosplay. And that automatically gives you a new challenge, 'cause you gotta think about face paint and horns.

KATE: Yeah, I was thinking about that. Because Homestuck has this very guided path of like, easy to difficult, so it's like an appealing challenge.

MKLA: Yeah. And if you really want to get advanced, there's characters like Bec Noir, there's Davepeta, there's all the sprites. There's something for every skill level. And then, y'know, people make their own versions of the outfits, which have turned out amazing. There's just so much room to be as creative or not creative as you want. Which I think is cool.

KATE: Yeah, absolutely. It's so appealing, and that's also part of why, like—like you said, it can just start with the t-shirt. Y'know. The... hm. Let me think about how I'm trying to put this. I lost it. [Laughs] Edit it out!

MKLA: Big problem.

KATE: Yeah.

MKLA: Yeah. [Laughs]

KATE: But, so you mentioned some of those very challenging characters, and I haven't—like, those are obviously a lot less common to cosplay. Like, what's the most impressively complex Homestuck cosplay you've ever seen?

MKLA: Uh... hm. Y'know... what comes to mind first is that, I said Bec Noir, but I remember seeing a Bec Noir cosplay that like—it was something that was actually like back in the day, not even a recent one—but it had huge wings, had like the whole... almost like fursuit kind of thing, but it still had stylistically Homestuck, like sharp lines—You know what, I should really look up who this is, so I can give them credit.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: [quietly:] Bec noir cosplay. [At full volume:] But yeah, um. Ancestor cosplays, Bec Noir, there's just like... trying to find it on Instagram. You can edit this out.

KATE: Yeah, I will.

[Pause]

MKLA: OK, I can't find it.

KATE: It's alright. Well, I'm sure somebody listening will locate it.

MKLA: Yeah. Maybe I'll tweet it later once I find it, 'cause I'm sure I will eventually. But it's... yeah, the most impressive ones I've seen... Yeah, definitely ancestors, Bec Noir, the fancy god tiers too, those are so popular.

KATE: Yeah, I love, I love seeing those so much! You know, taking the simple designs of Homestuck outfits and iterating on them, making them seem more lived-in, and more custom.

MKLA: Yeah! Yeah, my friend El actuallyi, this year, organized a 20-person fancy god tier group. So it had all the trolls and all eight of the kids. And I don't know how he pulled it off, because I have trouble even getting a group of four friends to commit to something.

KATE: Yeah, right? That's some astounding organizing power.

MKLA: Yeah, it was really amazing how it all came together. I think all of us were just like, we can't let everyone else down, so we better work hard on this. 'Cause if you're missing one person it's like, then you have a 19-person group, and it's like, really? Where...

KATE: That's the power of solidarity. Is your friend, is that the person who does the very cool armor cosplay?

MKLA: Yeah—

KATE: Yes! I've seen—

MKLA: —@visguard on twitter and instagram.

KATE: Yeah. Those are incredible, I love those so much.

MKLA: Yeah, he's made like five different Dave armors, and he keeps leveling up the design. And y'know, he makes things so fast, and he's so good at designing things, and it's all from scratch—Sometimes he does it based on fanart, sometimes he does it on his own, and yeah. He's definitely a big inspiration for my own cosplays.

KATE: And that's one of the cool things is that, over just following cosplayers in this community you can just watch them level up over time.

MKLA: Yeah!

KATE: It's very cool to see that, like everyone just conquering a bigger and bigger mountain every time they suit up.

MKLA: Yeah. One of the—a really big cosplayer these days, actually a duo, Cowbutt Crunchies, they both started out doing—Well, I don't know if they started out doing Homestuck cosplays, but I think that got really well-known doing Homestuck cosplays, and now they're doing so much intricate craft work, they have a very successful cosplay Patreon where they give, like, wig tutorials, and I follow them 'cause their stuff just turns out so amazing. They've won Best In Show at so many different cons, and to think that it really started with Homestuck for them.

KATE: You know, I've never done the con circuit, and so what you just said there, "Best In Show," I just, oh, there are competitions, aren't they?

MKLA: Yeah! There are.

KATE: Cosplaying is a sport.

MKLA: Yeah. Usually it's called, like, the Masquerade, or like, just the Cosplay Contest, or—And actually I've never done it, I've been too nervous to do it.

KATE: Uh huh.

MKLA: And when you do enter those, they have to be completely handmade. You can probably have a few simple bought elements, but it really has to be top-to-bottom your own work.

KATE: Mhm. And so—Yeah, like, I wanted to talk about that, because as someone with basically no experience in this, like, what's the sort of benefits, and what's—How do you decide between buying a component and making it from scratch?

MKLA: um... Honestly, a lot of it depends on how quickly you want to get it done.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: Like, for example, I did that e-girl Kanaya cosplay most recently. That, I put together in probably like three days. I found a great skirt online, and literally hot-glued buttons to it. And y'know, it was just, like, for fun. So if you want to do something for fun, yeah, absolutely buy things. But if you want to challenge yourself, and really learn the crafting skills, then start from scratch. You could even sew your own T-shirt, yeah.

KATE: That does seem like a good—if you've never sewn anything before, a T-shirt is a good place to start. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah. The first thing I ever sewed was quilts with my grandma, but when I started getting into cosplay, I just found a very simple pattern book so I could learn basic sewing techniques, and I made a pair of pajama shorts, and it was so easy. And I was like "oh, if I can do this, I can do more things," and y'know, just level it up.

KATE: And pattern books and things like this—and a lot of people don't know this, but pattern books and the like are at public libraries.

MKLA: Oh really!

KATE: Yeah, you don't even have to buy things like this.

MKLA: See, I don't even know.

KATE: Yeah, there's a significant—most communities' public libraries can give you access to that sort of thing. And this is part of the benefit of the library's most popular demographic being old women, is that typically, the collection of stereotypically old lady interests are very well-represented in library catalogs.

MKLA: Oh good, yeah. I know, I felt very in solidarity with old ladies, like, every time I could go into JoAnn's, and just like, "what's up."

KATE: Right, I feel like, it is genuinely—cosplay is genuinely something that is keeping a dying art alive, right, as clothes production becomes more and more industrialized, y'know. You don't your clothes from a neighborhood tailor anymore, unless you're like, a hipster.

MKLA: It actually has become a common conversation topic between me and my grandma too, because she [likes to sew]. And y'know, that's brought us closer together, so now just another side effect of how cosplay's been so positive for me.

KATE: Yeah! And it is genuinely touching to see that element of in-person community exchange, and generational exchange.

MKLA: Yeah, I think, when I moved out here, I made my local friends through cosplay too. And y'know, I think without it, I wouldn't be where I am right now.

KATE: Mhm. That's one of the incredible things about cosplay, it's this physical event, and that promotes togetherness. And it's something like—I can't believe I'm comparing cosplay to Super Smash Bros., but I am— but fighting games, y'know, you have these big tournaments, and especially Smash Bros., which has—y'know, Melee had no online play. And so people would congregate and gather at these big in-person tournaments. And all of these events that you could only do in person are a really good way to make a bunch of nerds make lifelong friends, because they're—it's good to go outside, as it happens.

MKLA: It sure is. In a world where we're so online, and so used to only talking to each other on twitter, it's so great to have an avenue where you're forced to go outside and meet people, but still bond over your interests and have that kind of context. And y'know, it's easy to make friends that way.

KATE: Yeah! Absolutely. And so cosplay events—so I've noticed a ton of cosplayers, and this is crazy to me, really good cosplayers will go to a con and wear four different cosplays on the four different days.

MKLA: Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah.

KATE: —and it's like what the, how do you pull that off? That is craziness to me.

MKLA: Oh, you mean one cosplay per day? That's easy. But some of my friends, they'll do like three a day.

KATE: [shocked noise]

MKLA: I'm like, how are you doing this? Yeah! So my friends will be like, "oh, I'm planning like eight cosplays for this weekend." I'll be like, "what?!" So I'm not quite at that level, but yeah, I mean, they take it very very seriously. They'll time out exactly when the meetups for each fandom are, which cosplay to change into, it's pretty key to get a hotel [close] to the con if you're cosplaying, 'cause that's really kind of your sanctuary, to not only decompress, but also to change your face paint and all those things. And actually coming up with a lineup that makes sense for your makeup, too. Like, you don't want to be grey in the morning and then need a clean face later in the day, so yeah.

KATE: The logistics. The logistics might be the most appealing thing to me about this, I like this, this seems like something—

MKLA: Yeah, cons can actually be—yeah! Cons can actually be very stressful. I've seen it—I've really tried to tone it down and limit myself, like, I'm only going to do two cosplays for this con, and I know that's how I'll enjoy myself. Because I've seen some people where the amount of changes that they're doing really affects their ability to enjoy the con.

KATE: Right! It seems like there's a tipping point where you're spending more time in preparation than actually having fun in costume.

MKLA: Yeah, and I definitely want to make sure—that's my advice to people getting to cosplay, is to just know your limits and take it one step at a time. Especially if you want to wear a bunch of things at once, just make sure it's something you can handle, so you can still enjoy yourself.

KATE: Mhm. That's one of the cool things about Homestuck, is that there's these very achievable goals that you can set, and make sure that you've mastered before you move on to the next one.

MKLA: Yeah, and you know, you can change into another troll throughout the day pretty easily, 'cause you're already grey. [Laughs] Yeah.

KATE: That's a big plus.

MKLA: Very big plus.

KATE: Speaking of grey, Punkin Mars asked on twitter—

MKLA: Don't dye yourself, don't dye yourself with a Sharpie bath.

KATE: We—I was waiting, we're 25 minutes in, I was waiting, I literally had a time in my head of like, when is one of us gonna bring up the Sharpie bath for the first time.

MKLA: Of course. Yeah, it's inevitable.

KATE: And if you don't know what the Sharpie bath is, then good for you! [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah, you've made it this far, great job.

KATE: Yeah, keep it up. But Punkin Mars asked on twitter, "tips for graying up?" So step one, don't take a bath with a bunch of Sharpies.

MKLA: Step number two, find a good face paint. I think there was another question I saw on twitter that was like, "Ben Nye, or Snazzaroo, or Mehron?" Which are probably the three biggest face paint brands.

KATE: Yeah, Cro asked that on twitter.

MKLA: Yeah. So I think you can—there's differences between the three of them, so pick them based on your skin type, your budget, yeah. So Snazzaroo is probably the easiest entry-level paint. It's water-based, you can apply it with just a sponge, it's the cheapest, and you'll get a good effect from it. The light grey is a great color, it matches most armsocks if you're going that route. Mehron is my personal favorite, because it actually comes in a little stick, so you can rub that stick right all over your face, and then just blend it in. I actually usually go for both a grey stick and a white stick, because that will help you contour your face a little bit more. And then Ben Nye is actually what I started with. And they don't really have a fantastic shade of troll grey. What I actually had to do was mix up their grey color with their white color, and I forget how I did it, it was literally my first time, I think I scraped them out of the tin, like, microwaved them, and then like mixed it together. There's some tutorial I—

KATE: Very mad science stuff. That seems like it'd be hard to get consistently.

MKLA: Yeah. That was before I discovered Mehron. And Ben Nye and Mehron are both oil-based, so if you have a face that's more oily and prone to breaking out, I would maybe suggest Snazzaroo instead. And Mehron and Ben Nye, since they're oil-based, they need to be sealed. You cannot not seal your paint, and I know that's like, [the most] common tip that you can give, but. Just use baby powder—setting—anything, and that'll make your face dry to the touch, and you won't get paint anywhere. So, yeah!

KATE: Yes. Yeah. Do not pollute the universe with grey. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah. But yeah, I think general tips are those. Advanced tips, make sure you're using a primer. You can find, like, E.l.f. is probably the cheapest cosmetics brand out there that you can find at Target, most things are just a dollar or two. You can find a primer by them, and what does is kind of fill in your pores, and gives you a smooth surface to work on, so the paint will sit on it better. Yeah, there's several primers out there you [can choose] from. And then the other tip would just be, using contour, so your face isn't like a flat grey. So whether that's using like a white [?] stick, to highlight the areas like your cheekbones and your nose and stuff like that, and then maybe using a darker eyeshadow or the contours of your cheeks, that will really take your grey paint to the next level.

KATE: Mhm. See, this is all fantastic for me, because I haven't worn makeup since the Obama administration, so I have straight up just forgotten even the basics here. [Laughs]

MKLA: [Laughs] Yeah, sometimes it can be intimidating. If you really want to cosplay but are starting at level zero, then there's a lot of like really basic things that y'know, you have to look up a tutorial for everything, which is hard. So I hope I can give at least a few basic tips to make that a little bit easier. And I know cosplayers listening to this are probably like—but this is for the non-cosplayers out there.

KATE: Yeah. And are there— Yeah, right, if you already know how to do it, then you don't even need to listen to this part. You should've just known and skipped it. Come on.

MKLA: Exactly. [Laughs]

KATE: But are there any resources online, like tips for cosplayers that you think are particularly good?

MKLA: It depends on what you're doing. I recommend everything you do, just look for someone who has done it first. 'Cause chances are, somebody out there has written—or tutorial, or something. People have asked me like, "oh how do you this?" Chances are, I didn't come up with it myself, I found it on YouTube, or I'll take elements from several tutorials and combine it together in my own method. So whether it's like painting shirts, making robot arms, making fairy wings, there's something for pretty much everything out there already. There's so many resources, especially on YouTube, and you can see people making it. Always use tutorials. [Unintelligible]

KATE: Yeah. Right. This is not a path you have to tread on your own. Not only that, but in this, in whatever social media platform of choice you use to discuss Homestuck, there are a hundred percent cosplayers all over the place, and if you are friends with any of them, strike up some conversations. I know it's hard to talk to people. I know it's hard to go outside, I know it's hard to talk to people. You guys... sometimes it's good to try. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah. What's cool about Homestuck cosplaying is that everyone has really come up with their own methods of making things, so you can really—if you take inspiration from others or tutorials, you can really take the elements that you want, and you can come up with your own method too. So like, for example, horns. A lot of people make them with styrofoam, a lot of people make them with floral foam, a lot of people make them with Model Magic, or aluminum foil, or I've seen like toilet paper tubes. You can take the elements that you want—papier-mâché—and use the resources that you have, so, yeah.

KATE: How do you—what's your preferred horn method?

MKLA: These days, I've been using—it's a floral foam, but it's kind of a styrofoam too, I think it's called FloraCraft? You can find it in Michaels or JoAnn's. It's a white foam, and what I do is I carve it. So I'll draw the shape that I want with a Sharpie, and then cut it out, and then sand it to the right shape. And then, the secret step is, there's actually a thing called floral foam putty, and I think FloraCraft has a brand of that as well. And what it does is it just fills up the porous surface of the foam so it'll be really smooth, and you can sand that again, sand it as much as you want.

KATE: So you get a nice patina.

MKLA: Yeah. Yes, exactly. [Laughs]

KATE: [Laughs] Just saying the word patina made me think about like, 40 years from now, "this is my heirloom set of Kanaya horns, treat them well, my child."

MKLA: Yeah. But the FloraCraft foam is extremely lightweight and extremely durable, so you can drop them and you're fine. Whereas I've also made horns with aluminum foil, with clay on the outside, and those, I feel like if I drop them, they would shatter. So I've just found that styrofoam has been the most durable for me. And y'know, there's tutorials for that out there. Paint them with acrylics, seal with mod podge. Attach them with a simple headband, or you could be more advanced and anchor them under a wig. There's a lot of ways you can do it.

KATE: Mhm. Let's see. @barexamkind asked on twitter, "what's the most complicated cosplan you've ever made?"

MKLA: Actually it would be one not Homestuck-related, that would be 2B from Nier: Automata, which I did last summer. And that one I did 'cause I really wanted to challenge myself. Because her dress, you've probably seen it, is very very complicated with complicated materials, and I wanted to be able to make it from scratch. I think most cosplayers of her—which is perfectly valid—they'll buy their dress on ebay, or AliExpress, or anything like that. But I just wanted the challenge to try to make a dress scratch using materials, and I think that one ended up being my most complicated, just 'cause I did embossing, I did the feather sleeves, I did draping for the first time, it was a lot of advanced techniques that I had to really teach myself on the fly. But it turned out alright. [Laughs]

KATE: Yeah, I mean, it turned out excellently. But, so, embossing, for fine details, I hadn't even really thought about that.

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: How do you do that?

MKLA: Yeah, so, if you look at 2B's dress, you can see there's kind of a pattern at the bottom that kind of looks embroidered, kind of looks embossed, like, you can't really tell for sure. (It's embroidered, actually.) But I really wanted to go for a really subtle effect on that pattern. So what I did was, I bought a velvet material for her dress. And it had to be a certain kind of velvet, and I'm forgetting off the top of my head what that was. But what I did was, I carved a rubber stamp of the pattern, and sprayed it with water. And then you just press it onto the velvet and iron it on the back side. And then that created—that crushed the velvet and made it a different texture, so then you could see the pattern on her dress.

KATE: [Whispering] That's so fucking cool.

MKLA: Yeah! It was really cool, and you know what? I don't have an embroidery machine, so at the end of the day, even though that was so much work to do, it was actually easier than embroidering. [Laughs]

KATE: Uh huh. That is genuinely very fucking cool.

MKLA: Yeah, it was very difficult, but I really liked the effect that it made.

KATE: Mhm. And what's the most ambitious Homestuck cosplay you'd say you've done?

MKLA: Um... probably Aradiabot?

KATE: Mhm. Oh man, that one was incredible!

MKLA: Thank you! Yeah. That was the first time, at that point the only armor experience I had was making Vriska's arm, and I had so much fun making that that I was like, let's take this to the next level—I don't know how many times I'm gonna say "next level."

KATE: Uh huh. We are so many levels beyond right now, we have leveled up more than any show before.

MKLA: Yeah. So I was like, y'know, Aradiabot would be a really cool cosplay. And I really wanted to do like, a full, armory robotic set of that, make a lot of 3d elements, like her shoulder plates, and like—yeah. So I think that was quite complicated, 'cause I had to draft the pattern based on myself—what you do for that is actually, plastic-wrapped my body, and duct-taped the whole thing, and then I had someone go in and draw the actual patterns on my body, then I cut that out off of myself.

KATE: Holy shit!

MKLA: Yeah! That's actually a very common method that cosplayers will use to make patterns of their own body, because it's very hard to do that with just measurements alone. So doing that was a challenge, and y'know, I had to do that for not only my chest but my arms. And then I wanted to incorporate lights in it as well, and y'know, I didn't really get the effect I wanted at the end, but I'm still satisfied with it. Yeah, it was really fun.

KATE: Mhm. Was there lighting on the symbol?

MKLA: Yeah. Yeah.

KATE: ...that's—sorry, I just got distracted looking at this cosplay again, it's so intricate.

MKLA: Oh yeah. It's fun. And actually, the skirt I just found online, and I actually get the most compliments on that out of anything.

KATE: [Laughs]

MKLA: Which is funny. But I actually did spend a lot of time researching the exact skirt that I wanted, 'cause I know I wanted like, a sheer metallic effect. And so it's like, y'know, that's a way that you can craft your own cosplay but still incorporate bought elements as well. You don't have to make a hundred percent of the things you don't want to.

KATE: Yeah, something that like, a bought piece can complement all of the work you've already done.

MKLA: Yeah. It definitely wouldn't have turned out as effective, I think, if I had tried to make that skirt myself. So you know what? You pick your battles.

KATE: Yeah, exactly! Like, that's the most important thing is, I think a lot of people see something that they've never done before, and they think—and they look at the people who it the best, and they're like, "well I'll never do that." And y'know, they think about every single thing. And this goes not just for cosplay but for every creative endeavor. They think about all of the stuff in between them and being the best in the world at something.

MKLA: Absolutely, yeah.

KATE: But like, the real virtue is in getting it done, however you need to get it done, right? 'Cause every time you do that, it's gonna get better.

MKLA: Exactly. And if you see an element of a cosplay that you want to do, just start small. Like, if you want to start working with foam, and making like, armor or something, then start with just Vriska's arm or something. That's what I did. Like that's just a simple piece, it's not too many pieces. It's still challenging, especially if you've never done it before, but you don't have to start with like, an entire mecha suit for a cosplay. [Laughs]

KATE: And once you figure that out, you're not gonna be so intimidated next time, and once you figure that out and once you make something, you're gonna have it on hand.

MKLA: Exactly.

KATE: Like, you can always be—no matter how much is in between you and the goal, you can always carve off a little piece of it and knock it out. And like, that's—you know, every time somebody who's really good at things, which is everybody who comes on the show, they get asked, like, how do you do it? And it's just about making yourself chop it up into bits and do one thing at a time.

MKLA: And also the answer is just trial and error, over and over and over again.

KATE: Oh, yeah, you're gonna fuck up so much!

MKLA: I think Vriska's arm, because that was the first time I made like anything, I probably made like—I don't want to say three full versions of it, but each piece, I had to remake at least once. Whether it didn't fit right, or I painted it wrong, just something looked weird. You will have to remake things. And I think the cool part is, you can see yourself improve right then and there. And... yeah.

KATE: You mentioned having to redo something 'cause of the paint; like what's the most stressful part of putting together a cosplay? Like where are the stakes the highest?

MKLA: I think that it's just something that you don't really think about until you have to, and it's actually assembling the elements of your cosplay. So for Aradiabot, I had to figure out "how am I actually gonna wear this?" Because it's not like a shirt I could just put on, it's a piece of rigid foam, so I had to figure out where the attachments were going to be. And for that one, in all the shoulders I have just regular buckles, and then in the front I have velcro strips, and then the shoulder pauldrons are attached with a little piece of elastic so it can move with my shoulders as I move them. So like, figuring out how to actually wear your cosplay is quite difficult. 2B was the same way, because her skirt was removable. So I had to figure out, how am I going to attach this skirt, how am I going to wear this dress without a bra, things like that.

KATE: Mhm. It's complicated, yeah. I can understand that being nerve-wracking, 'cause if you bring it all together and then it doesn't fit or you can't move in it, then it's just like "well fuck."

MKLA: Yeah. And I think that's the most difficult because you don't think about it until it's too late, almost. Yeah, so I recommend planning those things from the beginning.

KATE: Mhm. So when you're first planning a cosplay, when you visualize a cosplay in your mind's eye and you first plan it, like, what do you do? Do you make written notes, do you make drawings, y'know, how does the conception process begin?

MKLA: I usually make drawings. I think about—well, drawings and notes. It depends how much I'm taking from the actual character versus how much I'm like, making up on my own. So for Aradiabot, I had to really make a lot of that up on my own, because her character design is actually very simple. So I had to draw a diagram of what the shapes of the pieces would look like, I had to think about the materials I wanted to use. I think I ended up using 10mm EVA foam floor boards for that, which are relatively cheap to come by. For Ms. Paint, I ended up finding a dress pattern in a pattern book that I really liked, and just taking notes on what color dyes I wanted to use, and stuff like that. Yeah. Let's see... but for 2B, where I was really copying the design to a T, I didn't really have to draw anything out for that. I could just make notes directly.

KATE: Yeah, 'cause there's so many reference—That's I guess part of the interesting challenge of Homestuck, is that the designs are lo-fi, right? They're all very representative and very vague, so you have to—when you're cosplaying a costume from a live-action production, you can literally just see pictures of it from every angle in an actual wearable human way. But for Homestuck, you really gotta do it.

MKLA: Yeah. I think that actually makes it more difficult. I think copying something to a T is a lot more difficult than—this is another reason why Homestuck is appealing.

KATE: Uh huh.

MKLA: Because you have so much freedom to do whatever you want. You don't have to worry about, did this texture of this fabric needs to be exactly this, or like... maybe you don't worry about that anyway. But yeah.

KATE: Uh huh. Right. It's much harder for the imagined haters in your brain to go, "well this is wrong," right?

MKLA: [Laughs] Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah, I think cosplayers tend to get up in that as well, a lot of imagined haters. Yeah. Don't worry about putting yourself—

KATE: They're the real enemy! The real haters have got nothing on the imaginary haters. The imaginary haters can get fucked, they're the worst.

MKLA: [Laughs] Yeah, for real. I do admit, it took me a while to get over imaginary haters. I was like, they're probably saying "oh this sucks" in the background. But it's like, that's not true.

KATE: Uh huh. But it's like, nobody actually does that. Everyone is going to a con to have fun, and be like, "oh, check it out, it's Vriska." Right?

MKLA: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe some people can be an asshole, I can't count on everyone not being an asshole.

KATE: But they just disappear into the masses of people who are not assholes. Most people are just fantastic, actually.

MKLA: Exactly. Yes.

KATE: This is—it's very easy. I think this is one of those benefits of going outside and doing stuff.

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: It does tend to give you heart about the fundamental decency and fun that most people are capable of having. To get on a digression about human nature in the fucking cosplay episode.

MKLA: Well no, I mean, it's relevant too, because there are a lot of things I don't have worry about, because I'm privileged in the cosplay community as a white cis woman. So a lot of people who aren't that identity are going to have a lot more trouble with people being mean online.

KATE: Yeah, absolutely.

MKLA: And y'know, if you do more cosplay episodes, I would love to hear those perspectives as well. Because, y'know.

KATE: Yeah, definitely. I want there to be many more—I like, looked back and I was like, 57 episodes and I haven't done a cosplay one yet? What the fuck? This is literally the most prominent @ example of the Homestuck fan community is cosplay. So that's on me. That's just me being someone who does not—who has not cosplayed in the past. And yeah, no, I absolutely—

MKLA: Yeah, and actually—

[Pause]

KATE: Sorry, go on?

MKLA: If you delve into the Homestuck cosplay fandom, it's a completely different space. It's very different. It's mostly on Instagram, and I think a lot of it is more about—I don't want to speak for everyone, but a lot of it is more about the cosplay and having fun with that, rather than keeping up with actual Homestuck content.

KATE: Mhm.

MKLA: And... yeah, if you see it, you'll kinda know what I'm talking about. Not to say that there's not people who don't, but it's really about having fun with the characters, and like AUs, and things like that. These are maybe not necessarily caught up with Pesterquest, or the Epilogues, or things like that. So it's like a whole different space, where people are able to enjoy themselves in that way.

KATE: Right, and y'know, there's people who value all different things in media. Just like you mentioned at the top, the music is what got you into Homestuck, right? I do tend to overfocus on really writing-heavy content because I'm a writer and a voracious reader. But like, that's not what everyone gets the most out of in media. There's always gonna be people who are visual thinkers, there's always gonna be people who are musical thinkers, and your experience with Homestuck isn't any less meaningful or important or fucking, quote, intellectual, for not being a writing-first kind of person, right?

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: I dial in on it 'cause it's my interest, but it doesn't make—writing isn't inherently more interesting than the costuming, and the design, and all those elements in common are part of what makes Homestuck special.

MKLA: Yeah. It's really cool. If you can really enjoy Homestuck, or any piece of media, in any way that you want, and there's just spaces for everyone.

KATE: Yeah. That's nice. I like Homestuck. Homestuck's pretty cool. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah, me too.

[Both laugh.]

KATE: Let's see—

MKLA: Yeah. I've made a lot of good friends because of it, so, it's great.

KATE: Yeah! As things go, it's a really good comic, but it's also just got some of the most incredible people attached to it, it's incredibly valuable.

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: And the last question was, zandraxofnebulon also asked on Discord, "Kate, if you could do a serious cosplay of any character, who would you dress up as?" Secily—fuck it, I'm gonna say it. #Secily2020. I'm gonna do it.

MKLA: Yes. Do it. [Laughs]

KATE: [Laughs] The motto of 2020 is, be the milf you want to see in the world. And that's—

MKLA: You should do it—do it at the clown motel live show that you talked about. [Laughs]

KATE: The clown motel!—I—you—be careful, if you joke about the clown motel live show too much, I will actually do a show at the clown motel. I'm going—

MKLA: Please do. Where is that again?

KATE: So, I haven't officially announced this yet, but I am going to Las Vegas late next year for a show, so maybe I will stop by the clown motel, for a very strange rural Nevada meetup. So if you've ever wanted to murder me in the desert, maybe that's the place to do it. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah, why not. I'll be there, why not.

KATE: Alright. Well.

MKLA: I'll show up as Vriska. [Laughs]

KATE: Yeah, I'll get in touch with the fine people at the clown motel, and I'll see if they have a fucking continental breakfast room or something. [Laughs] And that's our show!

[Outro music begins]

MKLA: Yeah.

KATE: This clown nonsense, it keeps—it just continues, it never stops.

MKLA: Yes. Nor should it.

KATE: The world is so absurd, the only recourse is clownery.

MKLA: Clowns are the future.

KATE: Yeah, absolutely. [Laughs] Clowns are the—I genuinely believe that! Clowns are the future, you gotta discard shame, you gotta become a clown. You can find this show at perfectlygenericpodcast.com, on iTunes, on Spotify, on Google Play, on Overcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And you can actually see us in person, we've got two live shows scheduled, many more to come, you can find out at pgenpod live more. [perfectlygenericpodcast.com/live] On October 26th, we're going to be in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, at The Pit. It's gonna be me, Cro, and Aysha U. Farah. It's going to be a complete bash, I'm very excited. We're going to be on an actual stage and everything, it's not like the first show when we were huddled into a bar.

MKLA: Wow. I wish I could be there! 'Cause like, that's so close to my home, but... yeah.

KATE: I'm, yeah, F. I keep missing people, like two ships passing in the night. But that's how it is.

MKLA: Yep. It's like that sometimes.

KATE: It really do be like that sometimes. And this show is listener-supported. Patrons of the podcast are contributing to something that is equitably shared with all of the guests, all the musicians, everyone involved in bringing these episodes to you shares in the support of the Patreon, you are not just paying me. And it's extremely amazing, the level of support that we've had. Now we're able to compensate the folks who provide transcripts of the episodes, which makes this show more accessible to everybody, and also is really nice for me, because I can just go search what I said on the wiki instead of having to remember it, which is less taxing on the brain cells.

MKLA: I've never been transcribed before.

KATE: Well, congratulations, you're about to be transcribed. Hello, whatever lovely person is transcribing this episode, I hope you had a good time.

MKLA: Yes, thank you.

[Both laugh]

KATE: And at the end of the show I like to thank our Skylark tier patrons for their generous support per episode. That's [names]... and Zach. Motherfucking Zach. The legend.

MKLA: Wow.

[Both laugh]

KATE: That's a lot people. Let's see, you can find me at twitter.com/gamblignant8, where I post hot takes on the regular. Where can folks find you, mkla?

MKLA: I am on twitter, though not often, at mkla, which is m-k-l-a, underscore cosplay. [@mkla_cosplay] And I'm also on Instragam as mkla.cosplay.

KATE: Alright. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, it's been awesome to learn more about this thing that I haven't—I'm a big drooling newbie at. I'm a scrub. [Laughs]

MKLA: Yeah, let's cosplay sometime!

KATE: I am—I will do—fuck it, #Secily2020, clown motel. We're making this hapen.

MKLA: It's happening. Alright.

KATE: Yeah I've said it on the show, now I have to do it. Next week—what the fuck are we doing next week? This is where I have to look up my own show. [Typing sounds] I hope everybody enjoys the Episode 1 throwback of me looking things up. Oh, next week we're doing a crossover episode with the Homestuck podcast Jax Does Homestuck, so Jackie will be joining us for that one. And I'm looking forward to that. See you next week everyone, bye!

MKLA: Thanks Kate, bye!

[Outro]

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